To be saddened but unsurprised by Britney Spears' testimony?

[plodalong12]

Listening to this and hearing Britney talk about the control of her father reminded me of watching the documentary Amy and I feel the same sort of Mitch Winehouse/Amy Winehouse vibe and we all know how that ended.

Someone is either too mentally ill to be in control of their own life or they are deemed well enough to be a judge on The X Factor, do a four-year Vegas live show followed immediately by a world tour. It can't be both.

"I haven't done anything in the world to deserve this treatment. It's not okay to force me to do anything I don't want to do"

I don’t support enforced contraception at all but it’s a nuanced situation, in that lithium can cause severe congenital birth defects. Which doesn’t mean that other meds can’t be used as an alternative, but again we don’t know her psychiatric/medication history

@thereisnohelp these papers clearly do not support the argument that “all bipolar disorder is the result of abuse”, nor do their conclusions even entirely align. I suspect if you had a conversation with the authors it wouldn’t go the way you’re thinking it would.

On the Netflix show dirty money, they have an episode on conservatorships in the US, the level of abuse is disgusting!

@TreeSmuggler my guess is the difference is money. She bankrolls the lot of them.

We’ve no way of knowing if she can manage her own business and personal life, but the stuff she’s saying is truly horrific.

ATieLikeRichardGere

Is their treatment is helping them or just making them behave normally so they fit into society and don't 'cause a problem' but not dealing with the underlying cause? Masking the problem and making them 'conform'.

Some mental disorders are only caused by trauma. I know a few systems, you can't become a system without experiencing trauma. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

@nolongersurprised

I don’t support enforced contraception at all but it’s a nuanced situation, in that lithium can cause severe congenital birth defects. Which doesn’t mean that other meds can’t be used as an alternative, but again we don’t know her psychiatric/medication history

It IS nuanced. Partly because of the danger that Lithium poses to the unborn, as you say. And partly because BS, for whatever reasons, has a history of failing to safeguard her children. (That might well have occurred when she was having an episode, but it was still a failure.the children were not safe in her care.)

Some people really shouldn't have children. It's not fair on the child. Having a child should not be a self- indulgence on a par (if you are rich) with buying a Lamborghini or a nice piece. of jewellery. Having said that, it really puzzles me why BS's father of all people (the family is well known to be dysfunctional) is given the right to make these decisions.

@ATieLikeRichardGere

I don't know if I've misinterpreted here but I've read @Awalkintime's comments to mean that many/all people with trauma are given a convenient label, with the trauma disregarded. But they separately acknowledged that not everyone with the diagnosis is as a result of unlabelled trauma - ie/they accept that there are genuine cases of bipolar unrelated to trauma.

One of their later comments clarified that they don't believe all cases of bipolar etc are mislabelled trauma.

I don't think I've explained that any better haha!

@Concerned2021

Whether she has previous mental health / current mental health and what ever the condition is doesn’t mean she shouldn’t have an ounce of control over her life. I mean she was able to work etc and make money during that time. Even if things at the time were bad and needed to happen there should always be evaluation after treatment etc. How anyone could think this is ok is beyond me.

It is strange frightening to envisage how such an utter loss of control could be justified. My dad has dementia and myself and my mum hold poa for him. But its really clear that our powers can only be exercised in areas where he lacks capacity and, where possible, his views should be obtained and respected. We dont just get to take over his life.

@Awalkintime

All the labels are crap if they are given to women who are suffering trauma and given a label instead.

WildWestWanda That is fine, you can disagree.

A woman might be suffering trauma AND have bipolar. Both need to be treated appropriately.

I knows several people with a diagnosis of bipolar. The majority of them are on medication and are able to live a healthy life, something they were not able to do prior to diagnosis and medication. Are you saying that THAT is all crap too and that these people should come off their medication?

@Ohmygoshandfolly

I can’t see the Winehouse comparison personally. I think Mitch doted on Amy and wanted the best for her, he tried and failed to protect her and I can’t imagine how difficult that is as a parent.

I feel sorry for Britney, it’s surely illegal to force birth control on any woman.

Huh?

Mitch constantly talked to the media about Amy's personal life and even brought a film crew to St Lucia when she was trying to get clean. That's not the actions of a dad wanting to protect his daughter.

He also used her connections to release his own music and forced her to perform on stage with him when she was clearly in no state to sing. Father of the year.

@Awalkintime I don’t think you will struggle to find people who feel helped by their diagnosis and treatment. I can recommend some fantastic personal accounts if you are interested. Things like being able to hold down a job or friendships really aren’t just about conforming. I don’t have bipolar myself, but having lost out on degrees, jobs and relationships due to other mental illnesses - which run in my family - I will tell you that being able to behave normally is not something I want in order to conform but rather in order to live and survive.

I just listened to the entire testimony, it's truly heartbreaking. The fact that a rich, white woman, known to the entire world can be taken advantage of in this way is utterly frightening. What the hell is happening to people without her financial means or platform to speak up for themselves?

Surely the only thing they can do now is to start from scratch and assess her independently - away from her toxic family so she can have a real diagnosis and be given back her autonomy.

I've always loved Britney - she's always been so humble and positive, with never a bad word to say about anyone. The fact that its her very own family who have done this to her is chilling.

[quote ExhaustedFlamingo]@ATieLikeRichardGere

I don't know if I've misinterpreted here but I've read @Awalkintime's comments to mean that many/all people with trauma are given a convenient label, with the trauma disregarded. But they separately acknowledged that not everyone with the diagnosis is as a result of unlabelled trauma - ie/they accept that there are genuine cases of bipolar unrelated to trauma.

One of their later comments clarified that they don't believe all cases of bipolar etc are mislabelled trauma.

I don't think I've explained that any better haha![/quote]
You've read it right. All the people I've known with trauma including me have been given a label. No help with the trauma just a label and drugs. I was told I was mentally ill, that there was something wrong with me when I was raped, no I wasn't, there was nothing wrong with me. My reaction was a response to a situation and very normal given the extreme situation that occurred.

When a deer runs away from a fox we don't label it as being mentally ill we say it is a normal reaction.

It's a horrifying situation.

There is obviously medical information that is rightly private but she seems to accept the conservator role in her life and has every right to make them someone other than her father.

@Awalkintime

I’m sorry you’ve had such a terrible thing happen to you and on top of that received poor care.

You seemed to suggest that “all the labels are crap” and I think we should be clear that that’s not many people’s experience, and that’s not what the evidence says.

So by all means, fight for trauma to be recognised and healed, but please don’t extrapolate from that to say that other diagnoses are not real, mislabelled or abusive.

@Pedalpushers

Forcing her on stage when ill, giving her lithium which is a hardcore drug with serious side effects when there's no medical records to support doing so, forcing her into a rehab institution when she refused to follow orders, refusing to allow her to remove her IUD...and not only is she paying them huge amounts for all of this, these abusers can object to ending the conservatorship and their word will carry more weight than hers. The legal system that allows this to happen is corrupt to its very core.

It's terrifying isn't it Pedal. Like a gothic novel, with the heiress wife locked up in an asylum once her villain of a husband has his paws on her cash.

In the Spears case it feels like the father is in it for the money and he is putting his comfort above his daughter's.

Learning that he pays for his legal fees to keep her under that level of control with her money does very much sound like that yes.

[quote ATieLikeRichardGere]@Awalkintime

I’m sorry you’ve had such a terrible thing happen to you and on top of that received poor care.

You seemed to suggest that “all the labels are crap” and I think we should be clear that that’s not many people’s experience, and that’s not what the evidence says.

So by all means, fight for trauma to be recognised and healed, but please don’t extrapolate from that to say that other diagnoses are not real, mislabelled or abusive.[/quote]
The issue is that this happens to most women with trauma and it isn't unique what happened to me. It has happened to many many women.

I will be reading Dr Jessica's book when it comes out and maybe it is something you might like to read to see how the evidence is substantial and it is many people's experiences, sadly.

im hoping she gets her freedom , 13 years of having her money and alot of her life controlled is a big price to pay for a minor breakdown , and on the grand scheme of things it was minor , she shaved her head in public , not tried to kill her kids or ran down the street with a knife hearing voices . she does sound in her call to the judge like shes got it together . and as she said if shes well enough to work then really shes well enough to be able to spend her own cash and make her own choices .. its so unreal that she is saying shes been forced to have an iud fitted and cant remove it , that surely goes well beyond this order . her ex was granted custody of their sons ,but i never recalled reading anywhere a statement in the press where family social services had deemed her unfit to be a mother then and forever in the future

this order should have been regularly reviewed at least yearly , pretty mindboggling its stood untried for all this time , if her father really loved her hed relinquish his 16 k he makes out of running it every month i believe it is and just let her be , i suspect if its not overturned she will wind up hating him , sadly the only winners do seem to be him at the moment though as hes on a nice little earner

For anyone that wants to sigh the petition go onto change.org #free Britney .

This needs to be put right

@Pedalpushers

For those saying we don't have access to her medical records - her conservators have previously filed claims that she has dementia. Does she look or sound like a woman 13 years into early onset dementia, and if that's the case then why would she be treated with lithium, which is not for dementia? They have also petitioned the court in available transcripts to continue the conservatorship based on the justification of it being a 'successful hybrid business model' - no mention of Britney's health or welfare whatsoever. One of the justifications used was that Britney is incapable of managing her fortune, and yet she's supposedly only worth 50 million dollars despite having earned an estimated 500 million in her career. Where has her money gone? Lastly, if Britney's medical records genuinely say that she is so ill that she needs to be completely totally controlled in all aspects of her life, what the hell have they been doing subjecting her to the stress of being a global popstar for 13 years instead of letting her retire in peace?

Exactly She has been working like a cart horse for the last thirteen years, but she is deemed unfit to have access to her own passport. It’s all about the money

@ChargingBuck that's what it made me think of!

The Britney Spears situation is awful. I just can’t believe this can happen in a 21st century western country.

It’s wrong it’s as simple as that. To be forced to have birth control is barbaric.

And if her father truely was concerned about her he would do this for free, wanting to support his daughter, bit expect payment of $16,000 per month!