To be saddened but unsurprised by Britney Spears' testimony?

[plodalong12]

Listening to this and hearing Britney talk about the control of her father reminded me of watching the documentary Amy and I feel the same sort of Mitch Winehouse/Amy Winehouse vibe and we all know how that ended.

Someone is either too mentally ill to be in control of their own life or they are deemed well enough to be a judge on The X Factor, do a four-year Vegas live show followed immediately by a world tour. It can't be both.

"I haven't done anything in the world to deserve this treatment. It's not okay to force me to do anything I don't want to do"

I can't believe people are defending Mitch Winehouse - the man's a revolting parasite who didn't give a fuck about his daughter's addictions or her pain, he just wanted fame and cash for himself.

@Awalkintime

TurquoiseLemur

I don't deny that. I still believe that many women are given that label when they have suffered trauma and are not and have seen evidence of it myself.

Not sure why you queried that because that is not what that comment says.

You wrote "I think that psychiatry is abusive and that all the labels-bipolar. . . is crap"

That is exactly what your comment said.

Yes, some women are given that label incorrectly. You are not the first person to point this out, it has been talked about for decades. And much more has to be done in that regard.

I have seen evidence of it myself, too. That is not the same as saying that ALL labels are crap. I have also known several people diagnosed with bipolar who have found the diagnosis helpful and who benefit from medication (this suggests that it is NOT all crap.) Some of those people (not all) have also experienced trauma and need (and sometimes receive) help for that too.

TurquoiseLemur You also said that bipolar is one of those labels was your comment.

Yes I did, I am not denying that and the comment that you quoted did not deny that either. That is what I am querying. Why are you suggesting that I am denying it?

I do not believe in the medical model, I am allowed to think that based on my own reading. I don't think they are ALL trauma based but I do think they all have a beginning point that isn't medical and that is why I think they are crap.

There's so much prejudice around people with mental health issues, if indeed she does have these. Even if Britney needs support, why can this not be an independent company or court appointed professional, if she's uncomfortable with her dad taking this role.
It's really uncomfortable to watch this unfolding. I feel like it's a case of abuse in plain sight. I get that there may or may not be mental health issues involved, but god give her a break

This (long) article by Rolling Stone was written in 2008 and thus from the perspective of “Britney is unwell and out of control”. It’s not unsympathetic though and highlights her father’s addictions and the impact on young Britney.

www.rollingstone.com/feature/the-tragedy-of-britney-spears-2-254735/

It describes her vulnerability, her awareness of how she was exploited, what is clearly at least one psychotic episode and drug abuse.

Which episode of dirty money is the conserved ship one?

I'd seen a few of the 'cry for help' vids on tiktok but thought it was a conspiracy. One girl told Britney to wear yellow in the next vid if she needed help and she did wear yellow... thought it was a coincidence! I was wrong

I disagree that those responses are an illness.

I disagree with this. If it's not thought of as an illness, it wouldn't be taken seriously and there would be less government help via funding for those who would otherwise have trouble affording it.

Only in America

I knew someone in the music industry at the time of her breakdown and it was a badly kept secret that she had become addicted to crystal meth around the time of the head shaving incident . We will never know what exactly was going on but that its a toxic vile industry and once the money rolls in the pushers hang in the sidelines to cash in . It’s just so sad that she has had no privacy and that the treatment was to enslave her by her father and the goose that lays the golden egg. Not being able to undress daily in private being forced to perform against her will horrendous and look at how many female stars get drug problems. Just finished Sineads book . It doesn’t help being a product fantasy performing marketed by old men no wonder they shave their heads its the last bit of control over their image to show the reality under the pop gloss production line. It’s just a vile industry full of vampires if u ask me and thank goodness a light is being shined on it finally. I hope she gets some much needed privacy but I expect she will be clickbait for the media . The price of celebrity is like selling your soul why people hunger for fame and fortune when you never get a private life is beyond me.

AzraiL
If its thought of as an illness then people will continue to get medicated and silenced for no reason. If it is thought of as a normal response to an external factor people can respond properly to it. I wouldn't take any medication for any response because I believe it is a natural response by my body.

@TakeYourFinalPosition

I’m really torn on this. I don’t think the public can have an opinion without access to her medical history; which understandably won’t be released.

My mother had bipolar. She had very bad meltdowns, would be stabilised in a psychiatric institution and then released on Lithium… and she’d tell anyone who would listen, competently and coherently; that she was being drugged by force and made to have therapy. It was what kept her stable. She’d take herself off the meds, and then end up having another psychotic episode. She wasn’t forced on birth control but it went to court a few times and as one of four kids; I wish she had of been.

I’m not saying that Britney has this - I have no idea - but it’s not uncommon behaviour amongst people with BPD.

Maybe her dad is an absolute arsehole, and maybe she should be totally released, but I don’t think we can make that call. I hope the judge can.

Seriously are you for real? She has clearly been enslaved and abused and through absolute hell while the family and those on the payroll are taking full advantage. You are unbelievable

@JustDoingMe

T.his is what happens when your child has become a commodity

Agreed. I bet there is a long list of slaves in the music industry. George michael couldn't get out of the sony contract he has signed as a naive teenager who was then taken advantage of and milked - all fair and legal in the eyes of the law!!

Bipolar and BPD have been mentioned upthread. They have some similar symptoms but they’re different conditions. Bipolar is a mood disorder and some milder forms can be well controlled with anti depressant drugs. BPD is a personality disorder and treatment is different. I don’t know whether Britney Spears has been declared as having lost capacity for this kind of control to be possible. I’ve had power of attorney in the past for someone who has lost capacity and even for that, the rules are nowhere near as draconian as they appear to be in the US, and the person who has lost capacity still has to be consulted on a case by case basis before a decision can be made on their behalf. Also lots of safeguarding in place, which there doesn’t appear to be in Britney’s case.

@Gettingbiggerandbigger

I don’t know much about the Amy Winehouse situation with her Dad but I always got the impression he was riding her coattails and had no desire for her to get clean.

With Britney I’ve been following the story for the last 6 months. Someone upthread said it wasn’t for the fans to get involved with her situation as they don’t know the facts (or something like that). If it wasn’t for the fans then we wouldn’t be talking about this and Britney would not have had her 20 mins in court. The fans have worked tirelessly to bring her situation to the public eye and deserve every credit for all they have done.

Granted none of us know the full extent to what has happened to her, what we do know is that she was thrust in front of the cameras from a very young age, she grew up in the public eye with every little thing being open for all to see. Her virginity was constantly a topic of discussion for every perve and his mates to discuss. She was accused of cheating on clean cut JT who announced to the world he slept with her and was cheered. She was vilified for her alleged infidelity. She was hounded every where she went, her image and weight scrutinised constantly. Imagine being a teenage girl already self conscious having every detail of your body under scrutiny by the world. Not only was she hounded by the paparazzi she was singled out and crucified by them, many still don’t see what they did as wrong, luckily some do and have come forward to apologise.

She then had 2 highly publicised marriages, one I think to an old school friend that lasted a matter of hours and another to one of her back up singers. She then had 2 babies in quick succession, divorced and lost custody of those children while being mocked in the press. I for one don’t blame her for what she did with her hair, shit loads of people shave their heads, I’m guessing that she did it as it was the one and only thing in her life she had control over at that moment in time. Then smashing the paparazzi car with the umbrella. At the time she had been trying to see her children but her ex was refusing to let her see them, I would have don’t a lot more damage than she did in her situation. If you watch the video of it happening you can here her cousin begging the paparazzi to leave her alone.

She’s then placed on a phsyc hold, probably the right move at the time. What happened next is the issue. Her father having the conserver-ship put in place. A man who has allegedly been abusive to the family and who only seem to care about how rich his little girl was going to make him being put in charge of everything. There has been very little said about where her mother is in all this but I believe she’s living a very comfortable life in a house Britney bout her. He brother has condemned the fans saying it’s complicated and they don’t know what they are talking about. Her sister has also tried to take control of the conserver-ship.

She even had her custody agreement to see her children changed because her father attacked one of her sons. But because he has full control of her life can’t do anything about it. I also think that Kevin should have stood up for her. Yes he is her ex but they have 2 children together, if not for her then he should stand up for his children’s mother.

At no point in the 13 years as anyone close to her or the courts said eerrmmm ok, if she’s so incapable of making her own decisions how is it she’s released hit albums, done world tours, judged music shows and maintained a LV tenancy. Why would they when they are all making money off her. Only her fans have stood up and said something is not right, surely that’s exploitation, she’s been pimped out as someone else unthread said.

My understanding is that she tried to have her own lawyer appointed but the courts refused and gave her a court appointed lawyer. Maybe if she was able to have her own then they would have thought for her more. Also the joint conserver was a friend of her dads, both milking her for everything they could.

I’ve never believed that the Instagrams she’s posted are truly her. I fully believe given how much her life has been controlled that they are posted by her guards and she’s made to come across as crazy, which given the fact she has told the court she’s been forced to have a iud, given drugs when she dosnt comply and not even allowed to travel in her boyfriends car alone, it’s not that hard to believe that the videos are also being controlled.

I’m also unsure of the boyfriend. I find it strange that given the amount of control she’s under that she would be allowed to choose her own boyfriend. I may be wrong but something dosnt sit right with him.

One of the things I remember from the 2nd documentary was Peter Falks daughter saying that actually having an independent conserver ship company put in charge could actually be more harmful as there is no incentive for them to get her out of it because of all the money they make from it. That is so scary if it’s true.

I really do hope she gets out of this and agree with her that her dad and others should be in jail. That will probably never happen but I hope she somehow gets justice for what they have done to her.

I am with you on the boyfriend. It seems so suspish.

I guess I just don't trust him. He's younger than her and is a 'hot' man. All about the abs etc. He clearly wants to be famous. I just don't understand why a young, attractive (not to me personally) man who could probably take his pick of the hot celeb women has chosen a woman who has a lot of 'baggage'. I'm not criticising Britney, by the way. I think she is amazing. Beautiful and sweet.

I get the feeling that he was 'paid' if you know what I mean. But now, seeing the waves of shit about to crash around the 'hybrid business model' (this was said by a man who recently resigned from his role in the conservatorship) has changed tack. He said zero for years. And then suddenly, after the first documentary came out, he was filmed by press saying he hated Britneys dad. Interesting. Why was he not fighting for her before?! Is it because he has gained her trust and is positioning himself to be 'in charge' of her affairs? I mean, I hope not. I hope she gets rid of all of it and, if it's what she wants, finds a kind and sweet small town man who will treat her as human being with all the respect a woman deserves. A man who has no interest in the money and the fame.

@Awalkintime

AzraiL If its thought of as an illness then people will continue to get medicated and silenced for no reason. If it is thought of as a normal response to an external factor people can respond properly to it. I wouldn't take any medication for any response because I believe it is a natural response by my body.

What if that medication made the difference between you being able to function/ have a life/keep down a job/socialize/ be on an even keel psychologically. . . and being unable to get out of bed/get through the day without wanting to take your own life?

You still wouldn't take it even then? Even to see if it MIGHT help? (It might not. But for many people, it does. If one medication doesn't help, another might.)

If I had never had anti-depressants, I'd almost certainly be dead now. I'd have taken my own life. Anti-depressants don't fix everything but they can help towards a better situation. A lot of my own difficulties are rooted in the abuse I experienced as a child and teenager. I am alive today and have not been silenced.

You seem to be generalizing wildly based on your own experience alone. And to be adopting a very black-and-white view of emotional distress. Anti-depressants and other medication can help. Talking therapies can help. Other things can help. We are not all the same. Sometimes medication helped me more than those other things, sometimes it didn't.

What you are saying might have the effect of persuading someone reading here that their situation is hopeless and that they should never, ever accept medication. Please don't do that.

If its thought of as an illness then people will continue to get medicated and silenced for no reason. If it is thought of as a normal response to an external factor people can respond properly to it. I wouldn't take any medication for any response because I believe it is a natural response by my body.

Ok. I still strongly disagree with you but don't want to waste any more time writing lengthy posts. You do you I guess?

@TakeYourFinalPosition

I’m really torn on this. I don’t think the public can have an opinion without access to her medical history; which understandably won’t be released.

My mother had bipolar. She had very bad meltdowns, would be stabilised in a psychiatric institution and then released on Lithium… and she’d tell anyone who would listen, competently and coherently; that she was being drugged by force and made to have therapy. It was what kept her stable. She’d take herself off the meds, and then end up having another psychotic episode. She wasn’t forced on birth control but it went to court a few times and as one of four kids; I wish she had of been.

I’m not saying that Britney has this - I have no idea - but it’s not uncommon behaviour amongst people with BPD.

Maybe her dad is an absolute arsehole, and maybe she should be totally released, but I don’t think we can make that call. I hope the judge can.

Was your mother able to perform to a high level in front of thousands of people night after night?

Given your childhood I can completely understand why you hold this opinion but I don’t think Britney’s situation is comparable.

@AzraiL. Mental illness is hugely underfunded in the UK and there are a lot of mentally ill people in prison simply because there is nowhere else to put them. A recent BBC documentary followed a patient who had attempted suicide due to untreated bipolar disorder, who spent three days in A&E because she couldn’t be left unattended and there were no local mental health beds available. She was eventually found a bed hundreds of miles away. Awareness of the different forms of mental illness has improved a lot - probably a lot of it down to the pandemic. Hopefully this will lead to much needed change in the future. The brain can be sick, just like other parts of the body, and by the way, some forms of mental illness have a physiological cause. A dear friend of ours was successfully treated with drugs and therapy for Schizophrenia. Two years ago she went off her meds and committed suicide a few days later. I think this fact alone makes a nonsense of your theory that it’s all a response to external factors. Your massively disrespectful and ignorant attitude is detrimental to the cause of better awareness and hugely insulting to those of us unlucky enough to be suffering from and treated for this all to real condition. I do hope you never have cause to eat your words.

TurquoiseLemur
I have been in that situation but when I found a trauma informed way of dealing with it, it changed my life completely. Something drugs never would do. I would still be taking them now trying to 'get better' from something that I was never ill from in the first place. Striving for the impossible and feeling worse and like a failure because I couldn't 'get better' when getting better wasn't what was needed.

I could say the same about you and that your message might encourage someone to take drugs that have huge side effects when they don't need it and be on them unnecessarily for life and not get the help they really need. Please don't do that. My message will hopefully encourage others to see an alternative to being doped up. More might explore a trauma informed approach which I see as a positive.

AzraiL It is ok to disagree, you reading brings you to that conclusion, my reading to mine. That is what is good about a debate.

@pam290358 I was quoting @Awalkintime. I just stuffed up with bolding her words.

@AzraiL. Yes, sorry, just realised this and was about to post my apology. My comment should have been aimed at Awalkintime. Apologies.

Also @Awalkintime. I don’t understand your assertion of being ‘silenced’ and ‘doped up’. Modern anti depressants - SSRI’s - do neither.

@pam290358

Also *@Awalkintime*. I don’t understand your assertion of being ‘silenced’ and ‘doped up’. Modern anti depressants - SSRI’s - do neither.

No society does that. Once you are doped then your change in behaviour fits the narrative and therefore you never get heard, your trauma gets ignored and never resolved.

@pam290358 no problem I can see how it happened!