To be saddened but unsurprised by Britney Spears' testimony?

[plodalong12]

Listening to this and hearing Britney talk about the control of her father reminded me of watching the documentary Amy and I feel the same sort of Mitch Winehouse/Amy Winehouse vibe and we all know how that ended.

Someone is either too mentally ill to be in control of their own life or they are deemed well enough to be a judge on The X Factor, do a four-year Vegas live show followed immediately by a world tour. It can't be both.

"I haven't done anything in the world to deserve this treatment. It's not okay to force me to do anything I don't want to do"

@Awalkintime

TurquoiseLemur I have been in that situation but when I found a trauma informed way of dealing with it, it changed my life completely. Something drugs never would do. I would still be taking them now trying to 'get better' from something that I was never ill from in the first place. Striving for the impossible and feeling worse and like a failure because I couldn't 'get better' when getting better wasn't what was needed.

I could say the same about you and that your message might encourage someone to take drugs that have huge side effects when they don't need it and be on them unnecessarily for life and not get the help they really need. Please don't do that. My message will hopefully encourage others to see an alternative to being doped up. More might explore a trauma informed approach which I see as a positive.

AzraiL It is ok to disagree, you reading brings you to that conclusion, my reading to mine. That is what is good about a debate.

I'm going to bow out of this thread because you seem to be completely unable to accept any kind of nuance.

I have just been saying that anti-depressants were not the WHOLE answer for me, that they are probably not the WHOLE answer for other people either, that they can sometimes help (not always), that other approaches can help too (but not always.) You seem to be actually unable to hear any of this.

When I was very depressed, I was silent then, unable to speak my truth then. If I had indeed taken my own life at that point, then that would have been a long and permanent silence. . .

Phrases such as "doped up" are emotive and don't help this discussion.

As for bipolar, many people who have bipolar NEED to be on medication, just as people with diabetes need to be on insulin. I am not talking about misdiagnosis, I am talking about people who actually do have bipolar. People you also seem to think don't really exist.

Also, quit with the patronizing. I too have read about trauma, thought about it, lived it. So have others.

Honestly @Awalkintime, if you can't recognise that people in mental distress cannot receive whatever it is you're imagining, because a brain in survival mode is unable to and won't care about 'finding the root cause' of their trauma, then you seriously haven't been there. When your mind is your own tortuous prison, it's there 24/7, there is no break, no silence, no reprieve, no rest - do you honest to god think floating up to them and cooing 'tell me your trauma I want you to be heard, let's find the roooot' is going to help?

You need a reality check.

SSRI’s don’t ‘dope’ and my own experience of treatment for mental illness couldn’t be further from what you’re saying - not just handed pills and sent away, but referred for counselling with a professional who really helped. It’s your ‘one size fits all’ attitude that I have an issue with. Years ago mental illness wasn’t understood and people were institutionalised. Then there was the disastrous ‘care in the community’ when the funding for specialist unit care was axed. Now we’re in a position where finally mental health issues are better understood and you seem to want to undermine that by having these issues declassified as an illness at all. I don’t believe in the ‘narrative’ as you put it. There’s no conspiracy to silence - just chronic underfunding. And if ‘doping’ is an issue, then surely denying that an illness actually exists is no way to improve drug treatments.

TurquoiseLemur That's fair enough, you have your right to your voice and no I will not be swayed into your way of thinking but you have your opportunity to share your ideas.

AzraiL Yes I have been there, you don't get to tell me what my experiences have or haven't been. But the simplicity of the medical model is easy to rely on when in crisis and people know no other alternative including our nurses.

There is no point mopping the floor but leaving the tap running which is in effect what we are doing when we medicate.

pam290358 I have a one size fits all model but so too do you, your model vs mine. They are all a one size fits all. I don't agree with the medical model or the way we approach mental health.

It isn't undoing at all, it is opening up opportunities for people to get support and be heard and to get off the hamster wheel of the medical model as they are currently on a one way road to nowhere with no hope of getting off as they are told that is them now forever.

Sorry, mopping a floor with a tap running is a weird and irrelevant analogy. If you don't like meds go see a psychologist. If I can't tell you where you've never been, (which I still find extremely hard to believe as how can someone who has been on the verge of suicide or harm to others be so callous to people suffering the same thing?) then you don't get to call those who seek a treatment plan that includes medication 'doped up'. If you took medication and tou felt that way, you qere on the wring meds. You are meant to feel normal. Normal enough to be able to commence talk therapy without wanting to slit your own wrists or attack the person across from you. It'salso clear you have no idea about mental treatment models as it is definitely not a one size fits all approach. How can it be when the illness presents differently in each person, and each person is different, and each trauma is different? You honestly sound like you haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. I am inclined to think you are either trolling us for giggles, or you are an mlm hun who thinks JuicePlus and Positive Thinking are the way. Either way I'm done. But please be mindful multiple people on this thread who are suffering have asked you to stop negating their experiences. So maybe you should bow out and stop adding to their trauma.

It’s disgusting. Her song “so lucky” said everything

AzraiL You find it hard to believe is just pointing out exactly the point I've made. Women not being believed for their experiences and being silenced by society and encouraged to be medicated because being medicated is the holy grail.

The medical model is a one size fits all - that all are ill. I don't believe that. You keep telling me what to do because you disagree with me and the fact you categorise me as mlm JuicePlus person shows your own thinking towards others who dare branch away from the medication.

People have asked me to stop saying what I think because we are not meant to think differently and speak about alternatives. Be silent or be medicated, is that the choice we're offering? Some people are scared of what else is out there or are that conditioned into thinking the hamster wheel is the only way. Instead of asking what's wrong with you maybe we need to start asking what's happened to you?

I find it hard to believe because of your behaviour.

A person with any sort of self awareness would say 'Ok. I've been there. Meds didn't work for me. But that doesn't mean it won't work for others. Everyone just needs to do what works'.

But you don't. You sit there touting the virtues of 'listening' to people with trauma, of the importance of making sure they're 'heard' - and yet multiple members of this board have bravely come forward to you directly and tried to explain how the medical model has literally saved their lives. And you're not hearing them. You are not allowing them to be heard or taking their testimony on board, at all.

You've plugged your ears and dug in your heels and are doing the text version of saying 'Lalalalala! Can't hear you! Won't listen!'

That's why I don't believe. You claim to have gone through it all yourself, claim to have the answer, but then do the exact opposite of what you preach, ignoring everyone on this board who is trying to make themselves heard. You've lost credibility.

@rosalie11

It’s disgusting. Her song “so lucky” said everything

Yeah I feel like her dressed in a school uniform now for ‘Hit me baby one more time’ is sinister now too

@Awalkintime. I now think you don’t really have much experience of mental health issues at all. Remember ‘care in the community’ ? Clearly disturbed patients were kicked out of specialist mental health units, supposedly because they would be better off in the community. A lot quickly abandoned their medication and what followed was members of the public being harmed, and in a couple of cases I recall, killed, when these people inevitably had psychotic breaks. Take my own experience of a friend diagnosed with Schizophrenia, who was doing fine on medication. The minute she was left unsupervised she stopped taking it and within a few days took her own life. How exactly is treatment of complex and diverse mental health conditions supposed to be possible without medication of any kind ? I agree it doesn’t work for all and in a lot of cases, healthcare professionals have to work hard with patients to find the right dosage and mix of treatments. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t work at all. Mental health care is chaotic in the UK as it is, but at least we’re making some progress. Your attitude is regressive - the equivalent of actually advocating for suicidal people to be counselled to ‘think positive’. And by the way - as for being heard, a number of people on this thread who have lived mental health nightmares have attempted to make themselves heard. You have ignored them. I’m done.

AzraiL Because I don't comply you mean? You are saying my behaviour. What do you mean by that? With your medical model theory I presume that is me diagnosed in an instant by you?

I didn't take meds. I've been through it three times and three times I've managed. Managed because I didn't see myself as being ill, I had hope because there wasn't a diagnosis of being ill for life, I saw my emotions as that, emotions - normal human emotions. Extreme emotions, yes but normal.

So because I don't change my mindset I am not listening. Does listening = hear what I say and do what I do and believe what I believe? Not at all. Listening doesn't mean conforming. I am allowing them to be heard, they can say what they want, however, you do not like others who think differently to be heard. I keep saying you have your opinions and your views and that is ok. You conveniently keep ignoring that part.

You've also plugged your ears and dug your heels in and saying Lalalala!
Ignoring how I am saying differences in opinions is ok but not sure why this is not ok and why we all have to think like you do? What you are saying I am doing, you are doing surely?

You have your beliefs and I have mine, that is ok to think differently but telling me to shut up because you disagree and using emotive language to try and guilt me into it is not ok.

@nolongersurprised

This (long) article by Rolling Stone was written in 2008 and thus from the perspective of “Britney is unwell and out of control”. It’s not unsympathetic though and highlights her father’s addictions and the impact on young Britney.

www.rollingstone.com/feature/the-tragedy-of-britney-spears-2-254735/

It describes her vulnerability, her awareness of how she was exploited, what is clearly at least one psychotic episode and drug abuse.

Reading this article is so sad. Who knows how much of it is accurate but it does paint a picture of someone desperately in need of help.

Help though. Not prison in her own home, forced to work with zero control of her own life for thirteen years.

pam290358

I have heard them, I have read every single one. Just because I don't think the same as you or believe that medication is the answer doesn't mean I haven't heard. I think the stories are awful and makes me more determined to encourage change.

No, because you don't listen. Simple. And you clearly still are not.

I think you're more concerned about being 'right' than anything else honestly.

I'm also unsure about the boyfriend.

I can see how her talking about marriage & kids might raise concerns.

What I kind of don't get is why they are all living off her.

Is that what a conservatorship is all about?-or only when a rich person is concerned?

To have a trust looking after her finances for her is one thing.

But why tours full time?

Why does she need to work rather than focus on getting help-for 13yrs!!

@pam290358 I wouldn't bother. We've said our peice, we've acknowledged that different things work for different people, she has added one and one and gotten 5 and interprets that to mean that we're somehow not listening , she's ignored everyone who's told her how meds have helped them and still somehow thinks she's 'listened' despite people obviously getting upset and asking her mulitple to consider their feelings which she has repeatedly refused to do. She seems to think being considerate of others struggling and being upset at her harmful rhetoric = compliance and gosh darnit she is younique and obviously like, really really reaaaaalllly woke and we're all doped up sheeple. Just leave her be.

@AzraiL

No, because you don't listen. Simple. And you clearly still are not.

Neither are you! And you clearly are not. You don't like someone thinking differently so want me to be quiet.

You can't have a debate because your way is the only way which is why you want me to be quiet. I'm happy to share my ideas, links etc and have a debate. You want me to be quiet. You are the one being 'right'.

[quote AzraiL]@pam290358 I wouldn't bother. We've said our peice, we've acknowledged that different things work for different people, she has added one and one and gotten 5 and interprets that to mean that we're somehow not listening , she's ignored everyone who's told her how meds have helped them and still somehow thinks she's 'listened' despite people obviously getting upset and asking her mulitple to consider their feelings which she has repeatedly refused to do. She seems to think being considerate of others struggling and being upset at her harmful rhetoric = compliance and gosh darnit she is younique and obviously like, really really reaaaaalllly woke and we're all doped up sheeple. Just leave her be.[/quote]
And the insults come out. Can't have a debate without resorting to insults.

I suspect the 'boyfriend' may infact be her handler. Possibly they orchestrated a meet cute so that to her it felt organic but he's on their payroll?

Not entirely sure but the thought did cross my mind.

You're not debatong, you're just hurting a bunch of people on this thread and setting us back 100 years.

But god forbid you show some consideration and 'comply'

And your lack of awareness astounds me - you honestly thought that telling everyone that if they were on meds they were 'doped up' and 'silenced' wasn't insulting?

We've not moved on in 100 years sorry given these stories and being told to comply shows that.

Like I said. No empathy, no compassion, no awareness, double standards for yourself and others, not practising what you preach = no credibility.