To think table manners are on the decline

[RankManners]

inspired by current thread on table manners...
I work in a primary school and am shocked by the lack of table manners. Thinking that year 3 or 4 (age 8/9) is a suitable age to be able to use cutlery properly, I'd say about 2 children in each class do this. I'm talking eating sweetcorn (and pretty much everything) with fingers, putting a chicken breast on a fork and eating it like a lolly, eating a jacket potato by scraping the insides off on bottom teeth etc.

Similarly in a restaurant, you'll see parents with decent table manners and then kids eating like animals - how can parents not notice this??

(I'm your average WC parent, nothing posh here, but was bought up with standards!)
So AIBU it's the way things are going
YANBU manners separate us from animals

I'm finding it a constant struggle to maintain the manners they have had drummed into them from when they were two. I've got to be careful, because I don't want to make meal times into a war zone, but it's something I've noticed as well, and it winds me up no end.

We struggle with this one here. DS finds cutlery hard to use (we think he has dyspraxia) so we have to constantly remind him to use it, but if he thinks he can get away with not using it he will. I feel like all I do at mealtimes is nag him, and of course I can't supervise him at school mealtimes.

We've tried speaking to the school about how he struggles with the cutlery before (when he was much younger), but they always told us they hadn't noticed it as they don't closely watch the kids eat.

So some of the kids who have awful table manners, you might find the parents know but are facing a bit of a struggle changing it.

I remember my dad saying something very similar when I was a child (kids these days!) 40 years ago. I imagine it’s one of those things everyone says about the next generation. So politely (I was brought up well)… YABU.

The thing is kids don't care about what they look like when they eat. Once they hit teenage years and start being bothered their manners improve massively.

It's not that they haven't been taught/don't have the ability. It's just that they don't care

I don't think this is normal. DD's just finishing nursery and the nursery have a short list of targets headed 'preparing for school' pinned up; it includes being able to use cutlery. It's taken from the early years curriculum. So I would assume all children who go to nursery would have been at least encouraged to use their knives and forks properly before starting school. I'm sure plenty don't manage and god knows DD will still pick up sweetcorn with her fingers given half the chance, but it seems really unlikely children don't know better. They're just not doing better.

Interesting @User0ne . But what about the interim period when parent has to sit opposite DCs? My reasons for table training my DC could well have been purely selfish as I couldn't bear to sit with them talking with their mouths full/eating with hands etc.

(Genuinely not being as judgy as I sound, I'm interested in others thoughts!)

What bothers me more is going for lunch/dinner with friends and everyone’s phones come out. Put it away!!!

But what about the interim period when parent has to sit opposite DCs?

Not every parent does sit opposite DC at mealtimes as not every family has a table to eat at or space for a table. It's harder to show good table manners for a child to mirror if you're sitting on the sofa.

I think it's really hard. DD knows manners but her default position is to use her fingers. She just wants to eat the peas and can't be bothered to chase them round the plate with her knife and fork, it's quicker and easier to just use fingers. If we are out I ensure she uses a knife and fork, at home I battle it less, as we have enough meal time battles to get her to eat something without adding how she eats into the mix!

When you see the many threads where posters laugh and chuckle at the idea of "stuffy outdated pretentious waste of time" (can't remember the other ones..) basic table manners, you are not wrong.

Not eating proper food, lazy parenting, screen at the table (for children AND parents).. it all adds up.

People laughing at the idea of kids having diner first too. It takes effort but it's so much easier to teach them decent manners when you sit down with them, concentrate on what the children are doing, and teach them.

Not surprised. Also those who might intervene such as restaurant staff will get abuse and not be supported by their managers.

My 9 year old has sat at a table for every meal and used cutlery since he was tiny. He has been expressly taught how to eat properly and pulled up on it at every single meal. He’s been taken to nice restaurants and goes to a school who drill table manners into them. Proper eating skills are modelled on a daily basis.

He eats like a fucking savage. I have no idea why. He’d definitely try and eat sweetcorn with his fingers or a chicken breast stuck wholesale onto a fork. He gets it all over his face and fingers too. I mean he gets corrected at EVERY SINGLE MEAL, so what else there is to do I don’t know.

DS2 was late using cutlery, but now manages it, if rather awkwardly, at 9. I think table manners go out the window at school. I remember going to pick up DD, who was in reception at the time, just after lunch, and the amount of food on the floor, even where years 5 and 6 sit, was appalling.

We’re a bit like @GravityFalls. I don’t pick them up on it every meal, but I do raise it regularly with them, and yet fail to see much improvement. Eating with their mouth open is one that really winds me up.

I agree with you; I do wonder if it’s because there are so many more pressures on parents these days (homework in primary school, after school clubs, music practice etc etc) that encouraging good table manners feels like yet another thing to nag about…

@newnortherner111

Not surprised. Also those who might intervene such as restaurant staff will get abuse and not be supported by their managers.

It would be incredibly weird and inappropriate for restaurant staff to start correcting the table manners of their customers.

Like a PP I remember people lamenting this when I was a child, probably about 25 years ago. I think it's one of the constants of human history, just like every older generation complains that respect for elders has disappeared since they were children.

I don't recognise the kids not eating with cutlery amongst the school aged children I know but I do remember reading an article about children increasingly arriving at school not knowing how to use cutlery, so there might be something to that. I am always a bit surprised when kids come for a playdate and just abandon their plate at the table, as mine have always been taught to clear it, but that's a pretty minor thing.

As a teacher I would agree, most can't use a knife and the majority stick their fork into their food and eat it like a lolly. Eating with their mouths open and talking with food in their mouths is common. It isn't just 1 or 2 it is the majority of children who do this.

@GravityFalls I wasn't expecting your post to end like that - made me chuckle, I'm sorry!
@TheLovelinessOfDemons omg you are so right - you could feed the 5000 off our dinner hall floor.

@kindaclassy totally the same here (although I'm thinking I win at table manners and probably lose abysmally elsewhere, eg getting DC doing chores......)

It's how the Americans are shown as eating especially in cartoons

mine have always been taught to clear it

mine are taught not to pile their plate up with ridiculous amounts of food, and to finish what they put when they help themselves,

but if someone else is plating up for them, they absolutely do not have to finish.

We're working on not talking with his mouth full with my 3 year old currently - but it's made me realise (because he points it out) how often adults do it! They tend to do it more discretely than a child, but it happens a lot. Same with interrupting while someone else speaks, he's started pointing out when my parents do it (constantly) and when I do (more than I should).

DS finds cutlery hard to use (we think he has dyspraxia)

A lot of the time, people don't realise how many things are easily available to help. Some may be available via your OT service, can you self-refer?

There are lots of different types of cutlery for kids and adults who struggle to hold and control the conventional type.

Kuracare Caring Cutlery and other makes of Caring Cutlery have indents that automatically let a child or adult hold them correctly.

Some cutlery has fatter handles for an easy grip.

You can buy soft easy grip tubing to put on ordinary cutlery and lots of other things if the need is only for fatter handles.

There are loads and loads of aids available for mealtimes for anyone who finds some things difficult to master. Plates that don't let the food slide off, cups that don't spill, theraputty, squishy balls, exercise balls and all sorts of things to improve the muscles in the hands and wrists. Posture aids for correct seating position at the table also help digestion.

On the other hand my 18mo insists on using the same cutlery we do (the untold consequence of montessouri parenting!) and I spend mealtimes stressed out as he shovels food into his mouth with a fork the size of his face. I think he has sensory issues with food - doesn’t like touching it - which will probably bring in more problems as he gets older. The kids using their hands to eat are fine and normal.

Incidentally the adult I know who has the worst table manners is a foreign office diplomat - I keep thinking that he must behave differently at official meals! He eats with his hands, wipes his fingers on his plate and then kicks them, eats far too quickly... He's a very dear friend but I try and avoid eating with him because it embarrasses me. But it would seem it doesn't hold you back in life to the extent you'd expect!