To not swap land with my neighbour?

[TreeTrials]

Our neighbours are wanting to renovate their garage to incorporate it into their house. It sits alongside our garden boundary wall which is at an angle. Than angle makes it hard for them to do the changes they want because the room would be very narrow at the bottom.

They have previously talked to us about swapping land so they have a more regular shaped room. We expressed reluctance as we don't need the land they were offering and we have some mature bushes/trees growing out of the wall (it's a wide very old stone one). These trees and bushes provide privacy screening so that we don't see their house. If they are cut down, or die due to disturbed roots, we'll be staring at the side of their house rather than greenery. That was the end of the conversation.

They have now sent through technical drawings for their proposal and the proposed wall for the renovated garage appears be to on our land. It feels a bit cheeky given how we'd left things.

Should we let them proceed? The land is the corner of our garden and isn't used for anything useful - it's very dark and full of garden junk. I feel for them that the shape of the land makes their plans pretty hard to achieve with the boundary plan as it is.

My main concern is loss of privacy from the loss of the trees. But then I'm wondering what the situation would be if they change their plans to follow the boundary - they may still end up killing the trees as I imagine the roots will be disturbed whatever work they do. If this is going to be the case (not that I want them to kill our trees!) should we just suck it up?

I don't know for certain, but am reasonably sure the wall is ours as our house was built a long time before theirs. I've attached a very bad drawing.

YABU - it's only a small amount of land and makes their plans possible. Suck it up.

YANBU - you don't have to give away your land and lose your trees to make your neighbours' life better.

Why would you want less land near your house between you and your neighbours and more further away???

Garages mean drum kits, drills, slamming car doors and garage doors, trundling mowers and tools in and out….why on Earth would you want that CLOSER to the house without the nice thick wall and trees??? And then there’s the building it which will mean they’re in your garden for weeks rather than behind the wall.
When you come to sell neighbours will be closer which will devalue your home.

Just say “no”.

They could apply for and be granted planning permission. But that doesn't mean it can be built.
You can get permission for a development on land owned by someone else. You can't go ahead without their permission or being sold the land.

Is your DH usually such a doormat? Just say no

That wall sounds like maybe part of a much older building rather than a big standard garden wall. If so, would it even be ok to remove it?

You need to put the “no” in writing or they might pretend you’ve agreed and start work.

@TreeTrials

Hmmm. All interesting. I'm not sure they have thought everything through re the legals. Also, we live in a conservation area so they need permission to mess with mature trees. The trees are not in their drawings.

That’s a worrying comment. The plans (presumably drawn up by their architect) don’t include trees that are protected due to being in a conservation area? That would make me worry that the planning application would also be inaccurate and what was approved isn’t what would be built!

Is the wall itself protected as it’s in a conservation area?

Agree with everyone else - if they want to do this, they need to get it done through the proper legal process and pay all the fees and costs.

OP, don't do this, I think you'd end up regretting it.

There are no benefits to you here and even some negatives such as the loss of the trees as I doubt they'd survie long term.

Stop feeling guilty about having a larger house and garden, they chose to buy their house knowing the size and shape of the garden. No one was twisting their arms to force them to buy.

And unless it's all done properly and legally, you'll be faced with problems in the future.

Just say no. And if they do submit a planning application, object on the grounds it's your property.

It seems to me they are trying to wear you and your DH down into agreeing. Being a good neighbour does not mean rolling over and giving others what they want, regardless of how it affects you.

I'd say no primarily in hopes they'd not built right up to the border of my garden, blocking light and killing plants. No thanks.

@5zeds

You need to put the “no” in writing or they might pretend you’ve agreed and start work.

This.

It would be a very hard NO from me. We purchased a renovation project 3 years ago detached house with a strange L shaped garden. We were "befriended" by the next door neighbour on the first day- the L shape is due to the fact her great grandfather couldn't afford to purchase all of the land and hence it was sold to the owners of our home. She would very much like to purchase it ..... for pennies. Not that we'd sell anyway; she upped her offer but it's still a hard no - it's a lot of legal faff not to mention the moving of the boundaries trees/fences etc.

I would say no. They will have to be more creative with storage in their new build to accommodate the shape.
Personally I would contact the council about the plans incorporating your land which you do not want to sell/swap - if that’s what you decide. I can see them just going ahead with their proffered plans otherwise. They seem to think you are an easy pushover.

@KihoBebiluPute: "I voted yabu but only because I think you should be seeking a compromise that works for both sides rather than just saying no."
Why on earth should the OP be seeking a compromise? It's not her problem.

There are most likely some legal consequences to both of your actions here. I would not agree anything without a solicitor. Therefore me personally would have to say no to avoid the hassle of it. You can say no kindly and politely if that's what's worrying you.
I've never met anyone who would simply expect more land to come into their property just because. That bit is so ruddy rude be enough to put me off!

My neighbour tried something like this with me when I first bought my house. They wanted to take (not a swap) some of my property but wanted me to feel bad because I had space at the side of my house and they didn't. They wanted to split the space (that I owned) between our houses. I said 'no' and it's caused problems ever since because they feel I'm being unreasonable to not gift them the land. They've damaged my fence, cut down my trees and done all sorts of other things to try to destroy the existing boundary.
Sorry OP but these people bought their house as is and I'm sure there are other ways they could extend and create something that won't interfere with your property. Perhaps they have gotten a mixed response from your DH which is why they keep pushing the issue?
Also think about if you ever wanted to sell your house. Even if you have no intentions of selling it now you never know what the future will bring and there are also no guarantees your neighbour will stay in their home. Would giving them this land negatively affect the value of your home at all? If you're going to ask them to plant a 'mature tree' to replace existing trees I would get very specific on this point because they could plant something much smaller than you are imagining and what if it's not evergreen like your laurel hedge?
I think this is a very bad idea and I would personally say 'no'.

Our current garden is overlooked and it's a pain, you will regret if you lose the privacy from the trees.

If they would pay good money for that bit of land, I would consider selling it. You could always get some bamboo plants or something else for privacy.

There will be problems for you and absolutely no advantages. Please say no, clearly and in writing. Inform the planning department too.
They had every right to ask but you said no and that should have been that. They are being pushy and rude. They will just have to have a narrow room. They bought the property and were aware of boundaries.

If it's a definite no then i think you just need so say that clearly.
If you would benefit by them sorting out a wall which needs work and is your responsibility then consider it.
But find out if it's your wall first!

Just say ‘no we don’t want to do this’ . No explanation is needed.

I'd be inclined to say yes if:

I thought they fully understood the implications and costs involved..

If I trusted that they would be replacing the wall with a nicer one, in keeping with the setting/house/stone/brick used in the previous one (or nicer)..

That they would replace planting with like for like or better, mature planting.

That it would all be done in a specified time frame without fuss or annoyance.

That they do all the paperwork and cover all the costs.

You may well find that when given that scenario, they suddenly don't want to!

The huge old wall with trees sounds lovely. I can't imagine buying a house in a conservation area with that wall next door and then making plans to demolish the wall to extend a garage? Why?? Especially if it wasn't even my wall!

We bought a very small amount of land from our neighbour. It took a year to get all the land registry, redrawing of boundaries, and other documents drawn up, and cost us (and I assume them too, as we each paid our own solicitors) £5,000 in fees. And we paid them very handsomely for the small amount of land on top of the legal costs. If you neighbours want to do this, they must be prepared for this kind of cost, time and trouble.

It sounds a bit like a dry stone wall. I would suggest firstly that they fund a survey of the wall by an expert of your choosing. It probably won't be able to be made thinner. Dry stone walls are just really thick at the bottom. Any changes are made legally and the wall resited and planting reestablished before the building commences (because once the extension is up they have little incentive to put things right). At that point they cover all the costs of transferring the land a d changing the boundary. Then checked again after the building is complete. As the land has little value I would try to cooperate but you are doing them a big favour and they need to cover all the costs and do it legitimately.

Old wall. Mature trees. Conservation area. Not convinced they'd get planning.

If you agree it will take months, costs - land registry & solicitors on both sides, you'll need to scrutinise the details (how will the wall be rebuilt, what materials, what trees, check where windows would be) and then follow up to ensure it's done as it should be - and then potential conflict if it's not completed as expected.

In short a lot of faff for no benefit.

There are many threads on here about neighbour disputes where the poster has the law on their side but can't enforce it because it would cost a fortune to go to court.

So even if you insisted that the wall should be rebuilt with the old stones, mature trees replaced etc, they might not adhere to these conditions and you'd be left powerless.