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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not swap land with my neighbour?

531 replies

TreeTrials · 23/06/2021 15:44

Our neighbours are wanting to renovate their garage to incorporate it into their house. It sits alongside our garden boundary wall which is at an angle. Than angle makes it hard for them to do the changes they want because the room would be very narrow at the bottom.

They have previously talked to us about swapping land so they have a more regular shaped room. We expressed reluctance as we don't need the land they were offering and we have some mature bushes/trees growing out of the wall (it's a wide very old stone one). These trees and bushes provide privacy screening so that we don't see their house. If they are cut down, or die due to disturbed roots, we'll be staring at the side of their house rather than greenery. That was the end of the conversation.

They have now sent through technical drawings for their proposal and the proposed wall for the renovated garage appears be to on our land. It feels a bit cheeky given how we'd left things.

Should we let them proceed? The land is the corner of our garden and isn't used for anything useful - it's very dark and full of garden junk. I feel for them that the shape of the land makes their plans pretty hard to achieve with the boundary plan as it is.

My main concern is loss of privacy from the loss of the trees. But then I'm wondering what the situation would be if they change their plans to follow the boundary - they may still end up killing the trees as I imagine the roots will be disturbed whatever work they do. If this is going to be the case (not that I want them to kill our trees!) should we just suck it up?

I don't know for certain, but am reasonably sure the wall is ours as our house was built a long time before theirs. I've attached a very bad drawing.

YABU - it's only a small amount of land and makes their plans possible. Suck it up.

YANBU - you don't have to give away your land and lose your trees to make your neighbours' life better.

To not swap land with my neighbour?
OP posts:
bridgetreilly · 23/06/2021 16:26

To be clear, you can apply for planning permission on land that doesn't belong to you (developers regularly do this before proceeding with a sale), for example. However, to go ahead with the actual building would be trespass and probably some kind of theft. The sensible thing to do if they've submitted plans, is submit your opposition to the plans on the basis of being the landowner. The council will throw them out.

Ilovethewild · 23/06/2021 16:26

On the premise OP as you house is bigger than mine, you have to swap with me!

You can just change land boundaries!

Just say no, or sellout to them ensuring all legal fees are paid by them including land register fees.

It’s madness.

Ilovethewild · 23/06/2021 16:27

Can’t!

bridgetreilly · 23/06/2021 16:28

I think we feel bad because our house and garden is substantially bigger than theirs.

Presumably you also paid substantially more for your house and garden. The size of their house and land is not your fault.

RubyGoat · 23/06/2021 16:29

@TreeTrials

When they say swap, they mean they get the bottom triangle and we get the top. My diagram is a bit rubbish and actually the bit they want is the same size, or slightly bigger, than the bit we'd lose.
Do I understand this correctly - you'd end up with a smaller garden? They propose to "swap" a section of your garden for a smaller section of their garden?
TreeTrials · 23/06/2021 16:31

Their current garage is ugly so it would possible look better (although it would be higher) when done. They are showing us the plans before submitting to planning. That seems weird to me though as they can't get planning on someone else's land.

The wall is very deep, maybe 4 ft at the base, and not in a great state. It has a 20ft laurel growing out of it. We're not at all bothered about the triangle they are offering us. It's wasted space in relation to our garden layout.

DH thinks we should allow them to move the boundary but tell them to rebuild the wall (thinner) with a new mature tree where the laurel is. He's nicer than I am.

We'd obviously need solicitors to sort the boundary/title plan, which we wouldn't pay for.

OP posts:
Micemakingclothes · 23/06/2021 16:31

Does their proposal include plans for
Registering the boundary change
Proper surveys
Professionally moving the wall
Landscaping your garden
And throughout all of this making sure you have a solicitor of your choice but they pay the bills

caringcarer · 23/06/2021 16:32

I would say no thank you we like our wall. No other explanation needed.

TreeTrials · 23/06/2021 16:32

Their current garage is ugly so it would possible look better (although it would be higher) when done. They are showing us the plans before submitting to planning. That seems weird to me though as they can't get planning on someone else's land.

The wall is very deep, maybe 4 ft at the base, and not in a great state. It has a 20ft laurel growing out of it. We're not at all bothered about the triangle they are offering us. It's wasted space in relation to our garden layout.

DH thinks we should allow them to move the boundary but tell them to rebuild the wall (thinner) with a new mature tree where the laurel is. He's nicer than I am.

We'd obviously need solicitors to sort the boundary/title plan, which we wouldn't pay for.

They haven't talked about survey/title or anything. Just sent us some drawings.

OP posts:
FuckyouCovid21 · 23/06/2021 16:34

Cheeky bastards, how the fuck have they done the plans already when you haven't agreed to give them the land?!

TiltTopTable · 23/06/2021 16:35

@PanamaPattie

Nope - unless they are willing to buy the land, get the boundary lines moved on the deeds, draw up a legal contract and update the Land Registry etc - all legal stuff through your solicitor and their solicitor and all fees paid by them. You will need to make this official or you will have endless problems if you ever sell in the future.
This ^^

We had this issue with a horrible neighbour. When he started asking about taking a bit of our drive (to park his ugly caravan on) I was dumbfounded. It was of no benefit to us, just hassle, and he'd always been pig ignorant. I said "why would we do that?" and he said "to be neighbourly"! DH took it a bit further and told him if we said yes, he'd have to pay us for the land and pay all the legal fees. Neighbour shut up about it after that. I imagine your neighbours haven't thought through the legal costs either.

Chloemol · 23/06/2021 16:36

No wouldn’t be doing any land swap, and would be objecting to the plans as they are on your property

CharlotteUnaNatalieThompson · 23/06/2021 16:36

I'd be telling them a polite but extremely firm no. They are cheeky enough to get plans drawn up when you had already told them no. This is not the action of people who will be considerate of your wishes in this.

This has literally no benefits to you and all for them. And significant negatives to you. The fact you're feeling guilty because you have a bigger house and garden is ridiculous and irrelevant. Presumably you also paid more for this and presumably they chose the house they are in and weren't forced to buy it?

If you want to bend over and let them do what they like with YOUR land then crack on but I'll await the thread complaining about the fact they haven't stuck by any of the conditions you set.

TheQueenOfTheNight · 23/06/2021 16:36

The thing is, they bought the land knowing the boundary. If it doesn't suit their needs it's unfortunate.
You don't need to look far to see lots of stories where this story of thing had gone terribly wrong. Even if they buy the land and agree to your terms, you have the hassle and stress of builders and the risk that the new wall isn't built well. Particularly if it requires different skills to building a new wall with standard, modern materials.
It's fine to think all will be well with a legal contract in place, but if things go wrong it could end up costing you money to assert your rights.

Like a pp said, just object on the grounds that it's your land. Yes it would be lovely for them if their boundary was different but they bought what they bought.

YanTanTethera123 · 23/06/2021 16:37

No way. And I hope you tell them so before you come home one day and find they’ve demolished the wall.
My sister’s neighbours conveniently ‘accidentally’ drove into my sister’s wall that they wanted moving in a similar way to yours. They then expected the rebuilt wall to have sort of ‘accidentally’ moved into the position they wanted to be in 😡

Anjo2011 · 23/06/2021 16:37

Just say you have considered it but the answer is a definite no. Don’t leave any room for negotiation. If you agree you will need land registry and deeds updated with new boundaries and this will not only be a cost but a hassle now and in the future. It’s not theirs , so you shouldn’t feel bad for saying no. Just say as far as you are concerned that is the end of the discussion.

NameChange2PostThis · 23/06/2021 16:37

@TreeTrials

When they say swap, they mean they get the bottom triangle and we get the top. My diagram is a bit rubbish and actually the bit they want is the same size, or slightly bigger, than the bit we'd lose.
@TreeTrials your DH is away with the fairies. This is not about being nice, it’s about legal ownership and responsibility. This is a minefield.

If you let your neighbours do this without involving land registry and solicitors, you will struggle to sell your house.

Unless you legally swap land, you may invalidate your home insurance as you will be allowing your neighbours to use your property.

If they have an accident on your property (the swapped bit), you might end up liable.

Either your neighbours pay £££ to get this done properly via land registry (with your permission) and a solicitor ensures they make good.
Or tell them to forget it.
Or tell me where you live, and I’ll come over. I’m pretty sure I’m more deserving than your neighbours, maybe your DH wants to give me part of your garden for free. Grin

mariominder · 23/06/2021 16:39

(Feel I should change my name to 'once-bitten' . . . ) If this is a single storey extension to the house the wall and trees might not be the only privacy issue. Presumably they couldn't have windows looking straight into your garden, but you probably wouldn't want a flat-roof balcony there. Need to be very careful over plans and conditions anyway!

canigooutyet · 23/06/2021 16:40

They are showing you plans and talking to you to try and make you feel somehow responsible. And it's working because you are thinking how to accommodate their demands based on guilt. No sure why you would feel guilty tbh just because you happen to own something someone else wants.

Whatever they replace it with it will never be the same for you.

They get their extension and an increase to the value of their property. And something a bit nicer looking.

And what do you get from it? Nothing. A useless bit of land.

NoTruckWithFrontedAdverbials · 23/06/2021 16:40

" they can't get planning on someone else's land. "

I don't think that's right. I think they have to declare they are only going to build on own land to get the permission. But the planners won't investigate and your protests are not a planning consideration (they are a separate matter).
happy to be corrected but this is what happened to us.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 23/06/2021 16:41

I can see why they think their request is reasonable - after all, it would square off your land too.

But they can't just do a land swap like that, and you have every right to refuse.

Since your DH is of a mind to agree though, and you're not too bothered yourself by the sound of it, I'd say that IN PRINCIPLE you agree but only if they pay to have the legal work done properly, and nothing will change unless and until the land has legally changed hands.

Shodan · 23/06/2021 16:42

I'm going to go against the grain a bit and say I'd consider it, if it were me- but tbh that's mostly because it would look neater (to me Grin). The odd triangles would make me feel a bit tetchy.

However. I would only consider it if, as PPs have said, all costs were borne by your neighbours and it was all done completely legally, and my side made good with mature trees/planting/wall rebuilt as necessary.

Librariesmakeshhhhappen · 23/06/2021 16:43

They can get planning for someone else's land. Doesnt give them the right to actually build it though.

You cant just give them it. You need to deal with all the legal stuff.

Replacing mature trees is difficult. They often die when moved and planted in a new location.

Just say no. You dont want to. Thats a good enough reason.

AryaStarkWolf · 23/06/2021 16:43

Not a chance, no way

Wheresmybiscuit3 · 23/06/2021 16:44

I think this could come back to bite you.

I would just say no... unless you actually want to

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