To not swap land with my neighbour?

[TreeTrials]

Our neighbours are wanting to renovate their garage to incorporate it into their house. It sits alongside our garden boundary wall which is at an angle. Than angle makes it hard for them to do the changes they want because the room would be very narrow at the bottom.

They have previously talked to us about swapping land so they have a more regular shaped room. We expressed reluctance as we don't need the land they were offering and we have some mature bushes/trees growing out of the wall (it's a wide very old stone one). These trees and bushes provide privacy screening so that we don't see their house. If they are cut down, or die due to disturbed roots, we'll be staring at the side of their house rather than greenery. That was the end of the conversation.

They have now sent through technical drawings for their proposal and the proposed wall for the renovated garage appears be to on our land. It feels a bit cheeky given how we'd left things.

Should we let them proceed? The land is the corner of our garden and isn't used for anything useful - it's very dark and full of garden junk. I feel for them that the shape of the land makes their plans pretty hard to achieve with the boundary plan as it is.

My main concern is loss of privacy from the loss of the trees. But then I'm wondering what the situation would be if they change their plans to follow the boundary - they may still end up killing the trees as I imagine the roots will be disturbed whatever work they do. If this is going to be the case (not that I want them to kill our trees!) should we just suck it up?

I don't know for certain, but am reasonably sure the wall is ours as our house was built a long time before theirs. I've attached a very bad drawing.

YABU - it's only a small amount of land and makes their plans possible. Suck it up.

YANBU - you don't have to give away your land and lose your trees to make your neighbours' life better.

@TreeTrials Are you the same person who posted about the neighbour wanting to swap land with you so he could get his too-big motability thingy into the garage he wants to build? If so, didn't everyone tell you it was a terrible idea before too?

If you are not this person then this is also a terrible idea, sorry. You gain nothing from it and it will end up being a ballache if/when you sell. You and your DH would be mad to allow yourselves to be guilt-tripped into giving away your land for nothing.

OP, I would consider their request, but with very clear constraints.

They need to have the new boundary registered correctly.
They need to have your nice old wall rebuilt along the boundary (not just stick in a new replacement)
They need to replace the removed plants, with mature ones.
They need to make good your garden, if that means landscaping, so be it.
You need to run all of this past a solicitor to be sure there's nothing that can bite you later.
They need to pay for ALL of the above.

Without it going through the correct legal channels, I'd be worried that they would have claimed your bit of land, but you won't actually have any claim on the bit they've offered you in return. If they sell, and the new buyers aren't on board, it could get nasty.

Don't feel sorry for them because their garden is smaller. They chose & bought their house, you chose & bought yours, & presumably garden sizes were reflected in the prices of each property.

They talked to you about swapping land & you expressed reluctance. I'd see these new drawings as an attempt to explain to you what they mean, & I'd take this opportunity to firmly say no.

Don't feel that you need to share your garden with them: you don't. Don't feel that they've gone to trouble & expense in getting these technical drawings made: that's their problem because it was their decision. They should've sorted out the land first. They knew you hadn't agreed to let them have your land, & they still went ahead.

If this is unresolved or you refuse, & they put the plans in for official approval, get in touch with the Planning Dept & point out that part of it is on your land, not theirs. Surely that won't get approval?

I've been through this several times. Once, I agreed to swop the gardens (same size & layout) associated with two flats - the person who wanted mine paid all legal fees. With another property, someone moved in & wanted to buy half of my back garden because theirs was smaller - which would've meant their garden was bigger than mine AND they would've been both next door to me and along the bottom of my much-reduced garden. Said no, that time. Bloody cheek.

Once you give them the land you won’t have any say over that they do.

No way would I sacrifice my privacy to give someone a less narrow room.

Say no, OP!

@TreeTrials

Their current garage is ugly so it would possible look better (although it would be higher) when done. They are showing us the plans before submitting to planning. That seems weird to me though as they can't get planning on someone else's land.

The wall is very deep, maybe 4 ft at the base, and not in a great state. It has a 20ft laurel growing out of it. We're not at all bothered about the triangle they are offering us. It's wasted space in relation to our garden layout.

DH thinks we should allow them to move the boundary but tell them to rebuild the wall (thinner) with a new mature tree where the laurel is. He's nicer than I am.

We'd obviously need solicitors to sort the boundary/title plan, which we wouldn't pay for.

They haven't talked about survey/title or anything. Just sent us some drawings.

Unless there's been a legislative change, they CAN apply and be granted planning permission for land they do not own, so you really do need to nip this in the bud. They have done all they need to do, to alert you to their intention to apply for planning permission, so get your skates on and get this sorted out! Forget the "neighbourly" crap - how much value are they adding to their house by what they're planning to do? How much value will your property drop by because the beautiful wall, mature trees and secluded outlook have been ruined?

Just say no.

@porkincider

Not a chance. You need to nip this in the bud now and make it clear that it’s not what you want before they apply for PP.

Or before they do it without official consent.

You'd be utterly stupid to do anything other than say absolutely no.

And if they damage your trees as part of the work then they need to fix it.

@TreeTrials

I think we feel bad because our house and garden is substantially bigger than theirs. DH is saying we'd be twats not to at least consider their proposal. He's saying we could specify that they replace the mature trees.

God, he sounds ripe for the plucking

Absolutely not

I think given that any work that happens is highly likely to kills off what you already have there, I'd probably go for agreeing to legally change the boundary and the cost to them for us doing that would be paying for mature (££££) planting to replace the privacy that was lost.

You want to give them some of your land because you feel bad that your garden and house are bigger than theirs?

Seriously?

I think I'd say no, it sounds like it would be a huge hassle for you.

I MIGHT say yes if they

• bought the land from you
• agreed to do the paperwork and pay for all legal costs
• agreed to replace the trees
• agreed to move the existing wall at their own expense

But it still sounds like a massive pain for you! I suspect that if you start to bring up the above issues they might change their mind...

a) get more info about exactly what they want to do and how they will effect the trees, and whether there is a way to protect them
b) try to be the bigger person, yes you have right to your land, but if unused, and it will make their lives so much easier, why not try to adjust a bit? have good relations with them. Maybe you can ask them the cost of replanting semi-mature trees , a hedge? ivy grows quick...

Yanbu to be concerned. I think best thing would be to talk to them about your concerns and maybe come to a compromise that suits you all.

Whatever is agreed should be formalised though, however you would do that.

Their smaller garden is not your fault, OP!

I live on a road where some people have shoebox gardens and then someone else has acres.

Hmmm. All interesting. I'm not sure they have thought everything through re the legals.
Also, we live in a conservation area so they need permission to mess with mature trees. The trees are not in their drawings.

No.

It won't be cost free for you. You will need legal advice and documents changing. They can't do this for you as it'd be a conflict of interest

Therefore it'd cost you time and effort, at no benefit to you even if they reimbursed you for the fees after the fact.

I would be very blunt that no, this isn't an option, its not open for discussion and if they decide to go ahead and encroach on your land you will go legal.

You aren't happy about this and this isn't anything that benefits you.

So no. And again no. And the answer will still be no.

YANBU you would both have to apply to Land Registry incurring costs and complications. Sounds like you do not want this so why go through that?

^ What @RedToothBrush said. It would not be cost free for you. All the benefits are for them.

Its not you problem you have more land than your neighbour, I assume you paid more for your property as a result. They have already asked and you said no.

Keep saying no and your DH needs to grow a pair and understand why you won't be doing this. If needs must, get a solicitor to reiterate that no means no.

The loss of the mature trees and bushes would be one of the costs.

I would 1stly clarify who owns the wall as if yours they can't just knock it down
Then I would check if swop is fair ie you are getting equal value from swop of land
Make sure they are only building on their land with an accurate measured survey
Check a Party Wall Act award doesn't need to be in place

Hmmm.... a very wide old stone wall, eh? If it is that wide, it could be very old indeed.

I can't help wondering just how old, and whether the local council would be happy about its removal. If it is older than both your houses, then there's a reason it was left where it is and not demolished years ago.