To not swap land with my neighbour?

[TreeTrials]

Our neighbours are wanting to renovate their garage to incorporate it into their house. It sits alongside our garden boundary wall which is at an angle. Than angle makes it hard for them to do the changes they want because the room would be very narrow at the bottom.

They have previously talked to us about swapping land so they have a more regular shaped room. We expressed reluctance as we don't need the land they were offering and we have some mature bushes/trees growing out of the wall (it's a wide very old stone one). These trees and bushes provide privacy screening so that we don't see their house. If they are cut down, or die due to disturbed roots, we'll be staring at the side of their house rather than greenery. That was the end of the conversation.

They have now sent through technical drawings for their proposal and the proposed wall for the renovated garage appears be to on our land. It feels a bit cheeky given how we'd left things.

Should we let them proceed? The land is the corner of our garden and isn't used for anything useful - it's very dark and full of garden junk. I feel for them that the shape of the land makes their plans pretty hard to achieve with the boundary plan as it is.

My main concern is loss of privacy from the loss of the trees. But then I'm wondering what the situation would be if they change their plans to follow the boundary - they may still end up killing the trees as I imagine the roots will be disturbed whatever work they do. If this is going to be the case (not that I want them to kill our trees!) should we just suck it up?

I don't know for certain, but am reasonably sure the wall is ours as our house was built a long time before theirs. I've attached a very bad drawing.

YABU - it's only a small amount of land and makes their plans possible. Suck it up.

YANBU - you don't have to give away your land and lose your trees to make your neighbours' life better.

Your neighbours will presumably be increasing the value of their house by these alterations? It would be a good idea to get some idea of how much they would benefit before entering negotiations, if you decide to discuss it at all. The land swap may not benefit you nearly as much. And if you do go ahead, there will be a need to change your deeds and to make it a proper legal arrangement.

Hi Not sure about any of the legals etc, but just fyi its really easy to get trees of any size. There is a huge place near me called Majestic trees which sell an amazing variety for less than I expected, at every age and size, and they organise transport and planting. I'm sure there would be others. Good luck with the rest of it.

This could go terribly wrong and they are being cheeky before the project has even started.

@HeronLanyon

Dear John and Sheila, We totally understand why you’d want to do this (we would too if we were you) but we discussed it and we don’t want to do this.

We love that wall and the trees and the privacy they give etc.

Additionally you might not realise but our property is listed including all of the boundary walls which would include that bit you wanted to buy and remove. Even if we agreed, which we don’t, The costs of you getting planning consent, conveyancing, registering the amended boundaries, putting all works right, replacing those trees, repairing the newly exposed part of our wall and so on don’t bear thinking about surely. I don’t see that you would be given consent to demolish a listed wall for a replacement garage anyway?
But coming back to the main reason, we don’t want to lose that bit of our boundary wall, trees and garden. Really sorry it’s not a runner. Wish you’d asked us something more possible for us to help you out.

This! Perfect response

Absolutely not. If you ever decide to sell, it’ll cause massive issues unless it’s done properly. If you really want to help them out I would look at options for maybe selling them the land, but get legal advice first and properly drawn up boundaries so that you can register the change with land registry to avoid future problems.

Years ago my parents were asked by their next door neighbours if they would like the top piece of the neighbours garden, as they had too much and weren’t gardeners. My parents agreed, walled and fenced off the land to match the rest of the garden and ended up with an L shaped garden, which they turned into a mini orchard. Years later the neighbours sold up and moved, The new neighbours waited until my parents went on holiday and then ‘took’ the land back without asking - wrecked the wall and fencing and fenced off the lot, along with the mature trees and bushes which were worth quite a lot of money. A lot of legal action and bad feeling later, the neighbours were ordered to put things back as they were, as the time statute had passed. It’s not worth the potential hassle unless you do it properly.

Ur boundary line must match what the land registry has. So if they want to change it, they would need to pay for a surveyor to redo the lines and submit them to the land registry. Then they should offer you some sort of compensation to buy the piece of land.
If it's an offer that is acceptable to you, and it's all drawn up legally first, then that's up to you. If not say no. But having a good relationship with ur neighboura wherever possible is worth something too. Nice neighbors make life so much better.

I would ring a solicitor and get legal advice but the advice given in here is pretty sound. Put it in writing just reiterating what they already know. They have had plans drawn up so you will give in.

No idea why you are even considering this.

OP, please please be very very careful here. As others have posted there are many factors at play. They should be driving this, showing you that they have done the leg work and understand what is involved. By sending them a note listing all these things you are in danger of creating a list they can tick off, it may not cover everything. For example how will you guarantee that they will rebuild the wall properly? what's to say they get any old builder in and then say 'well it's better than it was'?

Personally I wouldn't touch this with a barge pole (have experience of all of this). It really isn't worth the trouble. Remember this is just so they can have a 'regular shaped room'. Say that over to yourself, there is absolutely nothing in it for you.

Anyone is entitled to apply for planning permission on any bit of land but you do have to inform the owners.

I suggested that if neighbour informs OP she should reject it in writing. Anyway, planning permission goes with the land, not the applicant. It is not permissible to build on land that you do not own, so the part on OP's land would be illegal.

It might be different where the landowner is absent but do you imagine that the local authority would sign off a planning application when the owner has formally denied permission?

Say no. Unless they want to pay the value of that land up front. Give an inch they'll take a mile.

I've said YABU - but I would expect them to pay for you to have a solicitor to get it drawn up properly and to resolve any issues you have around trees etc.

Should they just be allowed to nab a bit of your land? YANBU at all.

NO WAY!!!!!!!
Put a stop to it right away or you will live to regret it!

Have you sent the email, yet, OP?

I keep coming back to his thread to see if the OP has.told them to FOTTFSOF and when they get there to FOSM. Doesn't look like it

I'm out

I can't bear the strain. Off to drink wine.

@BonnieDundee I’m trying my best to decipher your post but it keeps bleeping at me

Never sell land. Never.

You and your DH have very bizarre priorities. So you'd consider destroying some of a very old dry stone wall, removing established trees, having a negative effect on a listed building in a conservation area, reducing your privacy and putting up with all the hassle along the way.... just so you don't annoy your neighbours?!

You're either very very wet, or very very odd

@Classicbrunette

If you’re serious about the letter then please show it to a solicitor first. You can get a free half hour to speak to one who deals with land. They’ll ensure it covers what you need to say to the neighbours. And give you further advice.

I love how people say ‘free half hour’. Good luck with that, my findings are that very few give their time any more!

NO, no and no. This happened to us only it was over use of a lane. The other party wanted to take a chunk out of our land to widen the lane and for US to pay for it.
Went to court was a nightmare and incredibly stressful.
I would say no I know you feel for them etc. But it really isn’t your problem. Cheeky sods. They bought their house with land the way it is. As did your family. It doesn’t matter how you use your land.

Say no, loudly. You gain nothing, unless you want to live on a building site. they need to compensate you, HANDSOMELY, AND COVER ALL EXPENSES, before you even think about this.

This is MN. It’s every one for themselves here, so no surprises with the majority egocentric responses. If you’re torn, why don’t you speak to them about how they propose to mitigate your loss of privacy etc? Then if they don’t come up with anything satisfactory, you don’t have to feel bad saying no.

Sorry op just apprised myself of your updates! I think you and your DH seem entirely reasonable... Gosh, the cuntery of the general population is breathtaking though!

I would categorically tell them to sod off. It will lead to all sorts of legal issues regarding new title deeds being devised with boundary being redefined, not straightforward- just dealt with a similar issue regarding my dad’s property when he died - nightmare!! Don’t do it.