To not swap land with my neighbour?

[TreeTrials]

Our neighbours are wanting to renovate their garage to incorporate it into their house. It sits alongside our garden boundary wall which is at an angle. Than angle makes it hard for them to do the changes they want because the room would be very narrow at the bottom.

They have previously talked to us about swapping land so they have a more regular shaped room. We expressed reluctance as we don't need the land they were offering and we have some mature bushes/trees growing out of the wall (it's a wide very old stone one). These trees and bushes provide privacy screening so that we don't see their house. If they are cut down, or die due to disturbed roots, we'll be staring at the side of their house rather than greenery. That was the end of the conversation.

They have now sent through technical drawings for their proposal and the proposed wall for the renovated garage appears be to on our land. It feels a bit cheeky given how we'd left things.

Should we let them proceed? The land is the corner of our garden and isn't used for anything useful - it's very dark and full of garden junk. I feel for them that the shape of the land makes their plans pretty hard to achieve with the boundary plan as it is.

My main concern is loss of privacy from the loss of the trees. But then I'm wondering what the situation would be if they change their plans to follow the boundary - they may still end up killing the trees as I imagine the roots will be disturbed whatever work they do. If this is going to be the case (not that I want them to kill our trees!) should we just suck it up?

I don't know for certain, but am reasonably sure the wall is ours as our house was built a long time before theirs. I've attached a very bad drawing.

YABU - it's only a small amount of land and makes their plans possible. Suck it up.

YANBU - you don't have to give away your land and lose your trees to make your neighbours' life better.

@LookItsMeAgain

I am only coming back to this now but one of your posts *@TreeTrials* was this: We'd obviously need solicitors to sort the boundary/title plan, which we wouldn't pay for

You must employ your own solicitors and pay them yourselves. Why wouldn't you pay for the advice and expertise of a solicitor sorting out a land border issue for you???

(going back to read the rest of the thread after this post by the OP).

Why would the OP want to incur any costs for a plan which has no benefit to her whatsoever?

Please don’t send your email. You’re opening yourself up to all sorts of issues. Giving me all sorts of second hand stress at the idea of unpicking it all down the line, particularly if you ever want to sell your property.

So you would like to say a flat no to the neighbours. And have several food reasons for this.

But your dh cares so much what the neighbours think about him, that you are drafting long complicated letters. Does this mean any further problems will come your way too?

Does your dh care what you think about him?

Oh and if the neighbours prefer your sofa can you negotiate on that too?

You've now had hundreds of people telling you that this is a disastrous idea.

What does your DH think now?

I’d say it depends if you have a long standing relationship with your neighbours. I’d be tempted to agree as long as I had it in writing that they’d replace all the damaged plants on the boundary, perhaps put in a tree or two if privacy is a concern.

@SpaceRaiders

I’d say it depends if you have a long standing relationship with your neighbours. I’d be tempted to agree as long as I had it in writing that they’d replace all the damaged plants on the boundary, perhaps put in a tree or two if privacy is a concern.

and again, I have got a LOVELY bridge you might like to buy

and again, I have got a LOVELY bridge you might like to buy

Never mind your bridge - what about this Castle I've just inherited? I would love to live in it myself but my job takes me out of the country and it is sinful to leave such a lovely place empty for much of the year.

It's in central London, too, so an excellent investment.

If you have a mortgage your lender will also have to consent to this and likely they will want a valuation done at your cost to check that the property doesn’t lose value due to the transfers.
And they can be very slow to make a decision.
Your deeds will have to be released to draw the new boundaries and the bank will charge you to release the deeds

Your email needs redrafted to make it very clear that you are not yet consenting to this as some of the sentences imply that you are.

I would say no. Its their issue not yours.

You’d need legal docs to change boundary and paying. If technical drawings have been sent to council, I would query the land they are building on.

Tell them no no no they are trying to bully you. Its your land and they need to suck up the odd shape. Stand firm.

They are not entitleded to your land.
Stop feeling guilty
It does not suit you , end of. X

@SchadenfreudePersonified

and again, I have got a LOVELY bridge you might like to buy

Never mind your bridge - what about this Castle I've just inherited? I would love to live in it myself but my job takes me out of the country and it is sinful to leave such a lovely place empty for much of the year.

It's in central London, too, so an excellent investment.

can i swap my bridge for your castle?

Actually it’s a very good drawing, well done as it explains all. Tell them to do their worst! It’s your land, your property so bugger off and alter their plans to what is available to them!

@blubberyboo

If you have a mortgage your lender will also have to consent to this and likely they will want a valuation done at your cost to check that the property doesn’t lose value due to the transfers. And they can be very slow to make a decision. Your deeds will have to be released to draw the new boundaries and the bank will charge you to release the deeds

deeds don't live in banks anymore, they are (mostly) online. Banks sent ours back YEARS before we paid off the mortgage

The issue here @TreeTrials is that if you waste all this time agonising about an email you have no interest in coming good on, you’re more likely to piss them off than if you said “look, we have considered the and and what you want to do and even if we were onboard with this, our house is listed and there is simply no way that conservation would allow any of this work to take place.

As it is, none of this has any benefit to us, we don’t want the hassle or upheaval of any of this and we’re sure it won’t be granted anyway.

I’m sorry, I know you have your hearts set on this, but it’s not going to be possible
At all.

Be straightforward and honest. They deserve that

Your h is playing this soooo wrongly

This sounds like it should be a commercial transaction not a swap. It needs solicitors, paid for by them, with adjustments to deeds of the houses. Done properly the trees could well be fine and it sounds as though you don't really need that land anyway apart from as a screen. So you could make a bit of money.

@porkincider

Not a chance. You need to nip this in the bud now and make it clear that it’s not what you want before they apply for PP.

If I understand correctly - and that's a big 'if' - owning the land and having permission to build on it are not linked. In principle planning permission can be granted to someone but they can't execute it because it's not their land.

We had an issue some years ago where a local landowner, with the help of some inaccurate maps, applied to build in our garden and that was the advice we got at the time.

But of course I'd suggest you spoke to someone who really knows...

The wall that your neighbors want to move is listed. Thus, allowing them to move it will put you at legal risk and possibly financial risk also. You do not stand to benefit and you have something to lose. There are no pros for you here, only cons. Your neighbors bought their property knowing the shape of the boundaries, and it is entirely reasonable and fair to expect them to accept the negative effects of that rather than trying to improve their lot by handing risk to you. Hugs to you and your husband. Please stand up for yourselves and decline to change the boundary.

No way!!! Swapping the land may have an impact when you want to sell your house.

Can’t see what’s in it for you OP

People on MN often advocate bluntness with people who are mugging you off but this situation is more nuance.

You obviously want to keep a good relationship with your neighbours (let's face it, bad relationships with neighbours can make your lives hell) but from your post the most important thing to you is the beautiful old stone wall and the lovely, mature shrubs you have

I agree that they are CF and they perhaps do not understand it's not just about the space. Planting bamboo is not a substitute for established shrubs.

I think you should go with the approach that they may have misunderstood your initial refusal and tell them how you feel - it sounds to me like the stone wall is part of the character of the property and why you love it.

Tell them you don't want to see a new build as it ruins the integrity of the space and perhaps they can agree to pay some traditional stone masons and landscapers to renew these parts of the land once their garage has been built.. all drawn up by solicitors of course.

Go lightly but don't deviate from what you would be prepared to accept. Good luck OP!

We had a situation where we were building a side return kitchen extension up to a party boundary and it would have been really useful if our sink could have drained into neighbour’s drain. We asked very nicely and provided a plan to illustrate and the neighbour came back with a very polite positive ‘yes’ on the proviso we paid £50k to cover disruption etc. Needless to say we didn’t pursue it!! Perhaps do similar?

No way would I swap with them we actually had our neighbour ask us similar thing when they moved in but they were even cheekier and asked to have 6ft by 8ft section of the top of our garden for their shed since it didn't look like we were using it 🤦 We had two small children who used every inch possible of our garden. So I definitely know what you feel like right now. Also when they are redoing their drive make sure that the builders don't ruin your shrubs. We just had builders here redoing a boundary wall/drive next door and they made a heck of a mess, yes they cleared it up but if I had my plants and shrubs on that side they would have been ruined by them traipsing all over 😞 So keep a close eye on any works being done.