Want nothing to do with my auntie

[hurryupmummy]

This is going to be long 😬

So starting mid 2015

We needed ivf. Our first cycle our embryo split into triplets and I lost all three babies. Then I fell pregnant naturally and I lost that baby. Both times needed a D&C.

Mid 2016

Another cycle I had ohss and my left side of my body was shutting down at a rapid speed due to my left ovary twisting so I was hours from death. My cycle was cancelled and we were devastated. Then my next cycle was successful and also my cousin fell pregnant 6 week after.

The differences between us:

My cousin - shouted it from the rooftops that they conceived the first month, her OH actually made a comment to my hubby about him being 'ill' ffs. They told everyone the day they got their positive test. Found out gender, announced her name and planned a baby shower. Funnily enough mid week on my due date. I will never believe that to be a coincidence. Naivety - yeah probably

Myself - quite happy to plod along without telling anyone which caused huge rifts and arguments with my mum. So much so that she was crossed off my birth plan in red marker and I showed her. I didn't find out gender to prevent me from bonding. To me having a baby and being pregnant are two different things. Call me a skeptic and a twat but that's how I feel. I explained to my mum that there are people who go through a pregnancy and have a stillborn baby and how horrific that must be. My mum couldn't understand that. She blamed me for asking her not to tell people when her sister - my auntie was. Although I know damn right my mum was as people i didn't know were congratulating me

Anyway fast forward 2020 my cousin fall pregnant but miscarried.

A couple of us meet up - my cousin couldn't make it but my auntie is there and she lets it slip that XXXX is 6 weeks pregnant. Then says don't say I said anything though after what happened last time as it was awful, she went on and on and on, she tells the whole table how my cousin had to have a D&C and I said "so did I" and she looked me straight in the eye and said "yes but XXXX was worse, you've never seen anything like it" I tapped hubby's leg under the table stood up and he knew to follow me to the toilets. I cried and just said how can she just be so dismissive, invalidate anyone and everyone else?? It's horrendous for everyone who has experienced a pregnancy loss, it's not a fucking competition. Anyway we walked out, I went to the car. Hubby got the kids and made excuses. My auntie shouted to hubby ivf is different to miscarriage. No shit. My mum apparently explained that she didn't think it was that why we left. Hubby said if it wasn't a public place he would have ripped my auntie a new one

I now have 3 gorgeous children but have lost 4. Does that outweigh my loss yes and no. I'm fucking thankful everyday for my children and count my blessings and thank them for choosing to implant but also I do feel a sense of loss of the babies that were ours and they will alway be ours. The scan photos and pregnancy tests I still have as they are part of our marriage we believe.

I'm not going to rant and rave about it to family and friends. I will politely decline any invite we receive to a gathering at her house and if she is at a family party we will be hi and bye kind of thing. I don't want to invite her to any of our parties etc

AIBU?? I want to stress it's not the subject matter than upsets me. Obviously it's not the nicest thing to talk about but it doesn't reduce me to tears. I've held my friend sobbing from a miscarriage and no cried and told her she will be ok, time is a great healer. Its the fact my own auntie looked me in the eye and said that

Is it cruel or just something that anyone would say??

Thanks

As someone who has also had IVF and had to endure so much criticism, comparison and ‘Top Trumps of Trauma’ comments following it I understand exactly where you’re coming from and why you feel this way. If you haven’t had IVF or gone through infertility, you just don’t get it I’m afraid - I don’t care if people think they do or can imagine..they just can’t. End of.

Cut her off and don’t let people deny your experience. Enjoy your beautiful children and know that you’re incredible for coming through it all.

User - no I've blocked her and deleted her number and feel great. I feel like a weight has been lifted I seriously do

Owl - because I was sick of hearing about it, she had gone on and on and on about it all the blood, pain, like my cousin was the only one on the world

Great post by @IWantT0BreakFree.

It seems like you're hanging onto a lot of pain, and I think you should try get some help to work through it.

Your aunt was insensitive, but she was working through her daughter's loss, which reading between the lines was quite traumatic. If you're allowed struggle with your miscarriage, then they're allowed struggle with your cousin's.

Similarly, it's not your cousin's fault she conceived quickly, although she could've been more sensitive. It's a shame you weren't able to relax and enjoy your pregnancy, but surely you wouldn't wish that on someone else. She was having a baby and was excited about it, that's natural.

Your mum shouldn't have blabbed, but she was jealous of her sister getting to tell everyone, and wanted to share her own excitement.

I think your mum is more at fault than your auntie. She’s the one who betrayed a confidence and she’s the one who put you under pressure in your pregnancy.

I think you should cut your auntie some slack tbh. It sounds like she didn’t really know all the detail of what you’d been through, and - I’m trying to say this kindly - you were a little bit insensitive yourself to turn the focus to you in the conversation where your auntie was clearly upset about what an awful time your cousin had had. You’re right that it’s not a competition, but you’re making it like one yourself.

And the stuff about your cousin - everyone deals with their pregnancies in different ways. It doesn’t mean your cousin’s way is wrong or insensitive, it’s what was right for her.

You are clearly still carrying a lot of grief and trauma from what you’ve been through which is understandable (I’ve been through similar and couldn’t relax till my babies were born), I really think you would benefit from some professional help. Being angry with your auntie isn’t going to help you in the long run.

MrsM I do actually want to say to her do you know what IVF, ICSI or PICSI stand for without googling it and wiki?? Like you say you just don't understand I get it.

Ivf is a club. it's like when people say my children are 9 months apart they are like twins - fuck off are they. For once your 9m old will be partly weaned... the list could go on. If you haven't had twins you aren't in the club. Fact.

I might actually say that to my mum. Ivf is a special club and unless your in it you'll never know if she mentions anything. I doubt she will but just in case

I had IVF and ICSI (together with various other issues) and I don’t consider myself to be in a special club. My best friend fell pregnant easily but had a stillborn baby. I would never compare our traumas and try to say one is worse than the other. I am over what I went through now but I wouldn’t say my friend is. Everyone’s problems and the way they deal with them are different.

Idk-you all seem to be in competition with each other.

Your mum & her sister because your Aunt could tell people & your mum couldn't.

Then your Aunt saying what had happened to your cousin & you had to chip in saying that you had had the same.

Why not just let her tell the story?

That said she was a bitch to make her comment about ivf, but you all seem to be pretty much cut from the same cloth.

At one point as was in such a state I couldn't even stand as the panic body couldn't take it any longer, dh was ready to ring an ambulance. I had seizures from stress, knocked myself out. I had no pregnancy glow just puffy eyes and a bruised face ffs

This sounds very dramatic. I’ve come across dramatic patients and this is up there. I’m sensing you bring this level of drama to everyday life and maybe that’s a bit of what is going askew in interactions also.

I was once at a family BBQ when asked about one of my kids recent surgeries and hospital stays. They nearly died and pretty much would have lifelong consequences on top of existing disabilities. A cousin (seems a familiar theme) said ‘that’s nothing, xx being her toddler son, had his first haircut and they butchered it’. I said it’s just a hair cut and she flew off crying about how I couldn’t possibly understand as all of his curls are gone and he was ‘ruined’. Instead of chucking a hissy, getting DH to round up the kids and storming out I just looked at her and thought, fuck some people are absolute dicks, and then started a meal plan/shopping list in my head. Problem solved. If I cross paths with her now at family events and she raves on I just say ‘hmmm, I know’ but I couldn’t tell you what she is talking about as I don’t listen, again problem solved and all without dramatics!

@hurryupmummy

I’ve stopped talking about it with people other than my husband and other IVF Mums I’ve met mostly online. It only ever hurts me in the long run - my mum announced my pregnancy to everyone at 7 weeks and told them not to tell me she had for example and couldn’t understand why I’d be so upset and I had to explain that it was in case I lost my daughter. She still didn’t get it.

I have had therapy to get to the point where I’m okay not speaking about it and can brush off comments as other people’s ignorance. It usually warrants an eye roll from me and I do cut people off that consistently overstep the mark. It’s okay to do that - infertility ignorance is a privilege and it’s alright to not engage in that shit.

Do you follow any IVF mummy Instagram pages? Whenever things get overwhelming (because again, sometimes how we feel may not be rational but welcome to trauma) I speak to people I’ve met in these communities and they’re a great source of support and love. Mumsnet often is not on this particular subject.

Your aunt was awful to diminish your losses like that, but it all sounds like a bit of a toxic dynamic where everyone is in competition with each other. You’re better off out of that. There don’t be any ‘winners’.

YANBU. Your aunt sounds awful, insensitive and not the nicest of people. Miscarriage and the subsequent need for ivf is a horrific thing to go through and even if someone hadn't been through it themselves, I would expect them to have the emotional intelligence to be a little more sensitive than what your aunt (and cousins) sound like they have been.

I'm really sorry for the loss of your 4 babies.

Unfortunately most comments you will get here will be from those who don’t understand the pain of infertility and the trauma of IVF and everything that goes with it. Your aunt and mother and cousin all behaved disgracefully yet you will find in these situations people expect the woman going through all the trauma and hardship to be the one to not rise to things, not be hurt by things be a good girl and just hide your upset so you don’t make anyone uncomfortable.

I would cut ties with your aunt and cousin and distance yourself from your mother too. Sorry for all you’ve been through.

It's not too trumps on grief! Yanbu your aunt was insensitive but her daughter is hurting emotionally and you didn't make a fuss when you went through loss so your aunt wasn't aware (or as aware) her daughter has probably being crying down the phone etc. I would not take this personally, I would talk to your mum (your aunts sister?) about how insensitive she was, but don't let this get blown up out of all proportion. It sounds like your aunt was really traumatised when your cousin miscarried, some are more "dramatic" than others.

She's not right by any means but take the moral high ground and let it pass

@hurryupmummy

MrsM I do actually want to say to her do you know what IVF, ICSI or PICSI stand for without googling it and wiki?? Like you say you just don't understand I get it.

Ivf is a club. it's like when people say my children are 9 months apart they are like twins - fuck off are they. For once your 9m old will be partly weaned... the list could go on. If you haven't had twins you aren't in the club. Fact.

I might actually say that to my mum. Ivf is a special club and unless your in it you'll never know if she mentions anything. I doubt she will but just in case

You sound like you're determined to be different and special and what you'r really mad at is them not seeing that.

It sounds to me like your mum and her sister have a weird relationship, and you and your cousin probably don’t actually like each other IRL, but have been forced to play out your mothers’ competition between yourselves like puppets. Unfortunately, in your case, you, your husband and your babies were collateral damage. I really hope that you have had counselling because this level of drama and hurt is a really dysfunctional way to live and a bloody heavy weight to carry around with you. Congratulations on the births of your beautiful, healthy kids and for removing yourself from the drama. I would avoid these people completely, tbh.

@sneezypants ivf is different. It’s traumatic, painful, time consuming, robs you of hope, leaves you fearful of what should be an exciting time for most, the op wants her own family to make a tiny bit of effort to realise that she has been through a huge trauma of ivf and on top of that multiple miscarriage and to show her a bit of empathy. And they should.

You sound absolutely clueless. Lucky you!

So all your competitive justmentalness re your cousin does you no credit frankly. You clearly think a lot of what she does is somehow aimed at you, when in fact a lot of first time mums noisily celebrate every moment of their pregnancy this way. It has nothing to do with you, nor does her scheduling. The fact you perceive it that way is partly down to your grief and partly down to your mother who is clearly having some sort of proxy war with her sister, your aunt, via both of their children. Are you often compared and contrasted to each other in other ways?

Re the big incident itself, your aunt was being unspeakably vulgar banging on about her daughter's traumatic loss at a large family gathering in a public restaurant - I mean really how hideous is that? It's personal, it's traumatic, I assume she wasn't there so it's gossiping about her behind her back - and I don't buy this "processing her daughter's loss" bollocks, you do that with a close friend or family member over a cuppa and a cry, not in open forum - this was your aunt piggybacking on your poor cousin's trauma to make herself the centre of attention.

However, you then joined the competition by throwing your own personal,traumatic losses into the ring for assessment and comparison - "so did I" is directly inviting comparison (as if these things could ever be compared!) and your horrible aunt gladly obliged. I'm sure she hasn't the first idea of the details of your IVF or your losses and what they entailed as it doesn't sound like you're close enough you would have told her about it. She may be imagining embryos failing in a Petri dish, rather than the visceral operation you will have had to go through to have your babies removed. More importantly, by inserting yourself into her moment of perverse "glory" you challenged her so of course she felt she had to slap you down. She wasn't seeing either you or her daughter as people at that moment, just competing chess pieces. It's vile, but it does sound like the whole family dynamic is one of drama, showing off and competitiveness. Very ugly to read about, must be horrible to live within.

Tbh th only thing I would have said would have been "Auntie Sheila, I'm sure X wouldn't like it you telling the whole restaurant all the private details of her miscarriage like this. I know I wouldn't have liked it when it was me. Let's talk about something else." and try to save your poor cousin's dignity from her ghastly mother a bit. Or if you were feeling less confrontational "oh dear, poor X. I'll have to try and visit soon, maybe I can help as I have some idea what she's going through, although of course baby loss is different for everyone, it's a very PERSONAL THING [emphasis on the personal]. ANYWAY..." and moved the conversation on.

As it was, frankly it made you look like you just couldn't bear to let go of being the most hard done by in the family re baby loss, tbh. I'm sure it's more complicated than that but it did sound competitive, especially when you add that she was going on "as if your cousin was the only one". Poor girl. Despite your protestations you manifestly have zero compassion for her, and almost imply she "brought it on herself" by being so public and confident in her pregnancy.

Anyhow. Your whole family sound lik very hard work. If I were you I'd cut off as many as you can, work on building boundaries into the relationships you decide to keep, and get some therapy both for your grieving and to identify and work on how the family dynamic has infiltrated you and is influencing you to look for drama and to set yourself up in opposition and competition with others.

I think the OP wants her family to acknowledge that a miscarriage is a miscarriage, regardless of how it was conceived. The loss of a much-wanted baby is just as painful as any other much-wanted baby, and that the cousin (and aunt) do not have right to minimize and frankly humiliate @hurryupmummy like that.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post on this thread as I've not had IVF but I have had miscarriages and serious health complications that have affected my ability to get pregnant (currently 1DS later in life)....

Firstly, what your auntie said was absolutely awful. She sounds like someone clearly wrapped up on herself and her own immediate family and nothing else matters. And your mum also clearly doesn't understand either ... and probably never will. So YANBU.

But, I agree with others that you seem twisted with anger and resentment and counselling is probably a very good idea. You seem to also be driving the competition and quite judgemental of your cousin-very angry that she obviously 'doesn't get it'. Well, by your own words no one who hasn't been through IVF is going to get it-so she never will.

Equally you will not understand her grief or reaction to it. You may have experienced the same physical event but everyone has a completely different emotional reaction to it based on their own journey. I have had an operation after a late miscarriage but recovered physically and emotionally very well. Whereas others won't.

You can't compare trauma or hurt. Each persons reaction and time to heal will differ. But your posts seem so angry, judgmental, competitive and dramatic in your reactions that I think you need to unpick this with someone professional.

@Draineddraineddrained has it spot on and articulated better than I have

Good post, @Draineddraineddrained. OP, it clearly isn’t helping you one bit to view your cousin’s experience in comparison to your own losses, or to view various types of grief, trauma or loss in terms of competition or clubs of increasing ‘exclusivity’. Freakishly high numbers of us are unwilling members of clubs no one wants to be in. All you can feel is sympathy and solidarity, without leaping to an automatic ‘Mine was worse, and everyone needs to acknowledge it!’ I don’t discover someone else is also a sexual abuse survivor and jump in with ‘Me too! And I was NINE!’ Get some help for dealing with your understandable grief and rage.

I agree with drained and some comments. I love the way drained explained ways to move a conversation on. I am as open to criticism as I am to praise and others views totally.

The competition thing is interesting too. That's flagged something in my head. My sister and I have made a very successful business in 9 weeks with a worlds first product - now my auntie has two daughters. So we are the same dynamics really and the whole family has been so supportive - my uncle wanted to buy shares. Apart from them I have just clocked on to that.

The best thing of posting on here is perspective too. I hope from being on parenting forums I am going to have different insights and approaches for my own children not just suppress feelings and thoughts as that's how I feel in my family at times

Just to add we didn't let my uncle buy shares but that's just how supportive my family are

I don’t understand the parallel you’re making with you and your sister and your two cousins...? Are you saying you would have expected their parents not to be supportive?

I don’t know if we are reading the same post or if I just am lucky to have a great family and others standards are so low.

When the OP was going through the trauma of IVF and miscarriage of multiple babies her cousin knew about this. Cousins response was to talk about her pregnancy as much and as often as possible and to compare how she got pregnant first month of trying to how the OP husband is ‘ill’ so they needed IVF - and to tell people this in public. Zero empathy zero sympathy, didn’t even try be there for OP.

Fast forward to when cousin has a miscarriage. Suddenly miscarriage is awful and horrendous when it’s happening to cousin and everyone must be told and sympathise at the family outing. Again no one gives a shit that OP is there and has also been through multiple miscarriages and if May be tough for her to listen to minute details of one in first instance and second to hear all the sympathy when hers were dismissed. When OP raises it the aunt belittles her miscarriages as not being as bad as cousins and also implies they don’t count as they were following on from ivf.

OP just wants to be understood and recognised by her family that she’s been through a lot. Given they are doing the polar opposite it makes sense to cut aunt off and distance from mother too.

Yet as I predicted earlier posters think OP has the problem and shouldn’t have said anything.