S@“t has hit the fan. What would you do?

[Whotsithitthefan]

NC as outing. Long time poster.

I can’t sleep. DH had left. Sleeping in the car somewhere I think. DM here staying. DC being bullied at school and so is being a nightmare at home. Once he’s talked about what’s going on he’s fine but while he’s holding it all in, quite frankly, he’s a grumpy thug.

DH approach is long lectures. Reminding DC of past difficult behaviour. Criticising. Telling off. He takes it very personally when DC insults him or is rude to him. Won’t let it go.

I tend to try and listen first as there is always a context and then discuss the difficult behaviour once things are calm and I think DC can reflect.

Tonight DC was acting up. I stayed out of it as DH doesn’t like me taking over and finds it undermining if I offer a different approach. He wants me to back him up but I can’t because I feel like DC would then feel the whole world was against him/her and I don’t want to join in the critical lecture and when I do try and back DH up things just escalate anyway.

So I focused tonight on clearing up and left DH and DC to it. Meanwhile I don’t realise that DM is finding the way DH is talking to DC unbearable. She had told me earlier and I had a bit of a moan as I’m finding it hard.

I then hear really raised voices. DM shouting at DH that he is abusing DC with his criticism and domineering. She’s very upset. He’s really angry with her. DC joining in.

I stood between them and just repeated ‘time out’ over and over. DH kept going and going. When I kept saying time out DC would join in and told DH he’s a psycho. DH finally left and I managed to get DC calm and to sleep.

I’m in bed but can’t sleep as I can see it from all angles and have no clue what to do.

DC ‘full up’ emotionally and feeling particularly got at by DH. Deliberately pushes him because he knows he loses the plot and is testing him. The behaviours need addressing but also DC is a child and is overwhelmed at the moment.

DH is feeling blamed by me and unsupported by me. Feels like I get in the way of their relationship and turn DC against him because I’ll stick up for DC if I feel DH is out of order. I have been trying to stay out of it but it’s hard when it’s a child getting it in the neck. Tonight I stayed out of it apart from ‘time out’ when it was getting too heated. DH is sleeping in his car somewhere refusing to ever talk to my DM ever again. Wants us out of the house tomorrow at one point so he can change for work. Telling me I’m toxic and causing him MH issues (I can be quite critical to be fair) but I feel he’s the one whose being toxic to DC who should be the priority.

DM now in bits because she thinks she’s ‘ruined my life’.

Have today tried to be calm and have supported both DC and DM with their stuff. Feeling too cross with DH to support him much but am worried about him.

Feel like no one is supporting me. I hold the emotional stuff for them all but what about me? AIBU to wish there was someone in my life that was calm and steady to ‘hold’ things together.

How do I handle things tomorrow? I’ll have to do the school run so ‘brave face’ on. Then I know DM will be distraught. God knows if DH will get in touch.

Just needed to get this out and hope someone is awake and had some advice. I need to get some sleep.

@Whatamesssss I missed that about calling him names!

What names is your DH calling his small child op?

Thank God your mum is standing up for your child who is being bullied at school and bullied at home. If that was my husband treating my mid-primary ages child like that, he’d be out. No ifs, no buts.

"I agree with DH that DC needs to learn less aggressive ways of expressing overwhelming emotions"

Your DH needs to start with listening to his own advice. He is literally doing what he is expecting a PRIMARY AGED child not to, when that behaviour is being modelled over and over by one of the main adults in their life.

Your DH sounds horrible sorry. I hope you can find a better life without him.

Yes I'm a random off the internet but why subject your child to that?

For fuck sake. Stop being which a wet blanket. You have a child now. You dont get to be a meek little woman anymore.

Your child is being abused by his dad. And while are you angry with? Your mum, and you want her to apologise? What the hell?

Your mum is the only one doing anything to your child that the abuse is wrong. You should be applauding her.

Your husband is a bullying arsehole. And you want to text him to tell him he is loved and is welcome home. I'm guesing that you're one of those "any man is better than no man" types.

Your marriage is over. Your son needs you to remove him from the abuse so just bloody do it. Your husband had already gone. That's great. Pack his stuff, leave it outside and call a solicitor.

Hi OP your husband is really going to struggle to change. Your marriage will be hard work and the effects on you and your son will continue.
He has very fixed rigid views about how child must behave. It’s not healthy.
It’s great he’s doing the parenting course and you are doing joint counselling.
Something triggered him over this recent incident.
Ask him what it was?
He will have interpreted some words or a situation as under mining to you.
My ex was like this - he thought he should “be respected” at all times.
He was physically abusive too.
He’s gone.
I’m so much happier. Less tension at home and not walking on egg shells or dealing with his issues hat came from no where and left me exhausted.
💐

@Llamadog

I think that there are quite a lot of people getting excited about lecturing and shouting here. I agree that the relationships are out of balance but unless DH was using abusive language/was a risk to your DC then your DM probably needed to stay out of it. I can’t see how she thought she was helping. Regardless of DH’s behaviour, a situation where a primary school child thinks that they have the upper hand sufficiently to refer to their parent as a “fucking psycho” is something you should consider. There would be swift consequences for that it my house - Xbox/screen bans etc. The key point I think most people miss in these scenarios is that if you chuck DH out, there will be a starting premise of 50/50 custody anyway so you will be ending your marriage (unless you actually want to in which case go ahead), for very little purpose.

The op has said that her husband calls their son names. No excuse for that, it is abusive and it suggests that his "lectures" are more like aggressive rants.

You think that because the op doesn't think it's abusive that it isn't abusive, but that may well not be the case. The op may be the frog that sits in the cold water and doesn't notice when it starts to boil because it happens so slowly and it becomes her normal.

I've been in the mum's position in this story. It was my daughter being abused and the only difference was that I told her and didn't confront my son in law. In retrospect I wish I had tackled him. She left him 6 months later and my husband and I never had the opportunity to tell him what a worthless piece of shit he was. If he had been talking to one of my grandchildren like that I wouldnt have been able to stop myself intervening. Sometimes it takes someone else to see and act to make you see what is really happening. Your mum is a star.

Finally, one thing struck me from one of your posts op. You talk about being from a long line of critical women. Do you mean critical women or women who stand up for themselves? Who told you that you were a critical women? Your husband? Think about that.

Bravo to your mother for standing up to your bullying husband. Your poor child - being bullied at school and at home. This could leave them scarred for life, surely you know they would be better off without your husband in their life?

Dh is a bully.

Your mother correctly identified this and stood up to him.

Your dc is a small child. Your op makes him sound like a 15 year old. Protect him, support him. You already know that. Stop appeasing and negotiating with your husband. His aggression sounds awful. Does he speak to other people like this?

Sometimes it takes a third party who is not totally enmeshed in a situation to really see what is happening.

Your Mum could easily see without any prejudice what was happening.

Sounds v tricky and you are being pulled in all different directions....l know that feeling only too well.
My priority in your situation would be
DS, DM then DH.
Poor DS is a child that needs love and security which is just what your DM is trying to give even if it is a bit clumsy.
DH is acting like a child himself.

Your poor DC. He’s been moved from his previous school which he loved and he’s miserable at this one. He’s being bullied at school and at home. His mum who should be protecting him seems scared to stand up to the bully at home. DC must feel there’s nowhere for him to go to be emotionally safe.

Thank God for your DM. She stood up to the bully and tried to protect DC. She should stay forever not just a week! And the bully can go and live in his car for good.

In terms of you feeling angry at your mum, is it because she didn't handle your dh the right way? She didn't know she's supposed to tread on eggshells around him, did she and that's why you're angry with her. You see her as the reason why this blew up, and not your dh.

You don't really give enough information for anyone to assess if your DH is a horrible bully or just a normal tired and clumsy parent. One thing jumped at me from your initial post- it would make my blood boil if I was trying to parent my own child and my in-law would decide to tell me off in front of my child, essentially egging the child to rebellion. She was totally out of order and should be out of the house. I would ask her to stay away for a time being until everyone calms down.
You need to honestly assess if your husband is a bully and if it is fixable with some sort of therapy

I think that Op's mum was wrong to shout at Op's husband in front of their child, instead of just removing the child from the situation.

I think there is truth in me undermining his authority when I stick up for DC
I wouldn't be so sure, OP. Having authority and being a bully are not the same thing. When you have authority your kids know you are right, even if they won't admit it! My mum had a temper. Her dh kept quiet; did not stick up for us, but we kids still knew that she was being unreasonable. She didn't have authority. I doubt your dh has authority either.

is giving a long but respectful lecture that the DC can’t get out of abuse?

Yes, it is - because it renders your DS utterly without agency. My late husband used to do this to our DDs, started round about the same age. He was a proper authoritarian and the vast majority of our arguments were about our difference in parenting styles. If you listened to him, you'd have thought our DDs were out on the streets, getting pregnant, shoplifting, doing drugs and vandalising the neighbourhood, all simultaneously. The reality was that they were two lovely well-behaved kids, achieving massively at school, reaping praise from everyone who knew them about how polite and well spoken they were. He just never saw that, he only ever jumped on whatever tiny negative there might be. I stood up to him and was accused of undermining him too. Tough shit - he was wrong.

What broke us up was his slide into alcohol addiction, but realistically I should have dealt much earlier with his authoritarian tendencies. The trapped lectures were the main thing my DD2 remembers of him and she still has flashbacks. So it's serious.

I forgot to say in my last post, the look of relief on my daughter's face, when I told her that the way she had just been treated was totally wrong, was amazing. Prior to that she had accepted the abuse, believed it was her fault and was on anti depressants. It's like a load had been lifted when someone really sees what it going on and is on your side. That's hopefully what you son is feeling. Don't take that away from him.

So at present your husband is doing the bulk of the childcare, do you know how things are between them when you're not around OP?

@diddl

I think that Op's mum was wrong to shout at Op's husband in front of their child, instead of just removing the child from the situation.

I have a memory once of my grandmother (dad's mum) doing this when I was a child.

Not entirely the same situation but my parents were arguing a lot at the time (went on to divorce not long after) and I was feeling really really down about it. They didn't care if I was there or not for their screaming matches.

My grandmother used to come and take me out when she could when I called her to say they were doing it again.

One day she obviously had enough and I remember her coming over and storming into the room where my parents were and basically telling them off like a pair of children, telling them that they were damaging me and that the pair of them were acting disgustingly to be like that in front of me etc etc... She really gave them a piece of her mind.

My parents later ended up apologising to me and really calmed it down. It was what they needed, for someone on the outside to give their heads a bloody good wobble not just take me to another room.

As others have said, I also expected your son to be at least mid to late teens from your OP.
Your expectations are too high for mid-primary. He's still very young and it seems he has to deal with a bully at home as well as at school.
Your DH is so way out of line, the line's no longer even in sight. He's the adult and needs to behave like one. I don't know whether you can rescue this relationship, but more importantly, I think you need to ask whether you want to.
Your DM has it right.

Oh and I was really grateful that I finally had someone stick up for me.

Not undermining the other parent is great advice for normal, functioning families. Not so much when one parent is abusive.

So your dh is lecturing a stressed, emotional child but when criticised himself he throws a strop, leaves the house to sleep in a car, won't come back to even cross paths with your dm and has said he never wants to speak to her again?

Point that out to him. Look at how he's making his own child feel. Calling his child names probably makes him want to run away and never speak to his dad again too.

You need to step in and make a change op, it doesn't seem like your dh can do it but someone must.

And your mum is ace.

Your ‘D’H is a vile bully and control freak. You’re allowing your poor son to grow up in a toxic abusive home. It just takes one parent to make a home toxic and abusive, believe me. By staying with him you’re condoning how your son is being treated. You need to get him away from this pathetic excuse for a father or he’ll have worse emotional damage in years to come. Previous posters are absolutely right in saying respect is earned. Your son has probably already lost respect for his dad. The aggression, long lectures and name calling will be making him wonder why he’s so bad that his dad doesn’t like or love him.