All the genders..

[frutyloops]

I had a debate with my teenagers and their friends about all the new genders. And it went on to this:

If a male feels like a woman, she should be in the female showers in fitness centers etc. Also if she still has male genitals. When i say i would really not have male genitals in my shower, im sexist.

I really dont Care what gender people are, but i dont want to shower with male bodies. They were appaled of how sexist i am.

Am i? Really? Maby there is more to this than i am aware of?

This has been done to death

Maby - i havent seen. Can you help me with insight or show me a link?

In the minds of people between about 13-30 Yes, you are sexist and transphobic and unreasonable. Most people in this age bracket are fully on board with TWAW, multiple genders, not assuming pronouns etc

But to most people over about 30, you're just stating scientific facts and asserting your hard won women's rights.

It will be interesting to see if young people's opinions change with age or whether this new redefining of gender (and even sex!) becomes more and more accepted

Well i am almost 50 😂

They're very naive if they think it's remotely ok for male-bodied people to shower naked with women based on a simple "self-identification". But that's to be expected from teenagers. You're not being sexist or transphobic.

You want the 'Break It Down for Me' thread on Feminism Chat.

Thank you, all of you. 🌺

I have two sons in their early twenties and neither one of them have bought into this multi gender non binary stuff. They are all for living your life as you wish but don’t want trans men in their changing rooms anymore than I want trans women in mine.
Plenty of younger people are not on board with this stuff.
One of his friends is lesbian and appalled at the stuff stonewall is spouting and feels they have betrayed her whole sexual identity.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Try this link frutyloops

In response to your teens, you could ask them why they lack empathy for the victims of sex abuse who have stated that they simply cannot have males in spaces that they are in a state of undress, and why they lack empathy for women who for religious reasons will then have to exclude themselves also.

And also ask them if they really believe if people can change sex and how this happens (that would be a most interesting discussion to listen to).

My 17 year Old son says i am disrespectfull and i Can "just not look" if a male body is in the shower next to me.
My 13 year Old daughter is ashamed of how i wiew people, and if a man feel like a woman - then she is, therefore it is not important what body goes with her.

Lunch ended with an atmosphere, and I need Wine 😂

I am one of those. It is akward enough for me that there are naked woman all over , shaving everywhere. But male genitals - totally out of the question for me. Not doing it. Really really uncomfortable.

But my rights to shower with only woman - which is hard enough for me - is not as important as the rights of a man, who feels like a woman..

Splitting hairs here but wouldn't 'sexist' refer to sex, not gender?

Im not from english speaking nation 🌺

I'd be asking your teenagers why it is that they respect goes only one way, to the male who feels it is appropriate to shower next to a woman.

And ask them to explain what they think safeguarding principles are for? And most importantly, what about consent?

Ah sorry OP, I meant that you could be pedantic and pull apart their argument if they were calling you sexist!

Am i? Really? Maby there is more to this than i am aware of?

No you’re not, and no there isn’t.

It’s a new youth ideology that says you have to “be kind” to everyone and believe everything that anyone claims to be kind.

The problem is that the very well-intentioned ideology contradicts science, is very convenient for passing perverts and it’s mostly women who are having to budge up, “be kind” and put themselves at risk in the process.

Hopefully it’s a fad.

I would be asking my children why someone born into male body, identifying as a woman has more right to feel "comfortable" in a communal shower then me, born as a woman should have to feel "comfortable" in that very same shower.

I would ask what constitutes feeling like a Woman

My 17 year Old son says i am disrespectfull and i Can "just not look" if a male body is in the shower next to me.

Well what if (s)he's looking at you? The bigger, stronger, statistically more likely to be a predator, biological male with male genitals. Then what do you do? Ask your son that.

Ask them what about the rights of vulnerable female prisoners who have been attacked and raped by trans women? Are the rights of the trans women not to have their feelings hurt, more important than the right of vulnerable women to be physically safe?

I should have talked to you all, before lunch. But next time i am ready!!

@blameitonthecaffeine More like under 20. Can't think of anyone in mid/ late 20's who think like this.

My 17 year Old son says i am disrespectfull and i Can "just not look" if a male body is in the shower next to me.

Considering that the majority of sex crimes and violent crimes are committed by males, he is being incredibly naive to think that women should not be on the look out for males who are predatory.

And I wonder if he can tell us all how we can tell the difference? Reliably? With 100% confidence?

I doubt the scenario you have in mind would happen often. A trans woman pre op is likely to be too self conscious about her naked body and how others would respond, to use a communal shower like that anyway.

@blameitonthecaffeine

In the minds of people between about 13-30 Yes, you are sexist and transphobic and unreasonable. Most people in this age bracket are fully on board with TWAW, multiple genders, not assuming pronouns etc

But to most people over about 30, you're just stating scientific facts and asserting your hard won women's rights.

It will be interesting to see if young people's opinions change with age or whether this new redefining of gender (and even sex!) becomes more and more accepted

I'm 41 and agree that TWAW etc. As do most of my friends in a similar age bracket.