All the genders..

[frutyloops]

I had a debate with my teenagers and their friends about all the new genders. And it went on to this:

If a male feels like a woman, she should be in the female showers in fitness centers etc. Also if she still has male genitals. When i say i would really not have male genitals in my shower, im sexist.

I really dont Care what gender people are, but i dont want to shower with male bodies. They were appaled of how sexist i am.

Am i? Really? Maby there is more to this than i am aware of?

@VladmirsPoutine

I said it because on this particular website trans people are vilified. I am sorry for your experiences but reading this site you would think every trans person is some sort of up and coming pervert.

I'm interested to know though, a few years back before this ideology took root, did you think women were unreasonable for having single sex facilities? Do you think that vilified all men and treated them as up and coming perverts?

In the minds of people between about 13-30 Yes, you are sexist and transphobic and unreasonable. Most people in this age bracket are fully on board with TWAW, multiple genders, not assuming pronouns etc

I don't think that's true at all. I know loads of young people and most think it's bobbins.

I am from the north though. I know people from That London who say it's rampant there.... actually, maybe we were talking about Flat Earthers.....nope, definitely Genderism- sorry, I get them mixed up.

@RickiTarr

I also don't understand why, a few years ago, the idea of women and girls having single sex spaces wasn't controversial and everyone seemed to understand the need...but now all of a sudden the very idea is bigoted? Even domestic abuse shelter and prisons where the women are extremely vulnerable.

It was so sudden, everyone was caught off guard, and we are all so conditioned now to avoid giving offence that it takes bravery to speak up.

Very true. It's been such a creeping issue, so many of us weren't even aware that there was a debate (or no debate) going on.

But on the positive side it has made me aware of how brave and strong so many women really are when it comes down to it. And how so many women will speak up for other women and for children even in the face of abuse and threats.

But on the positive side it has made me aware of how brave and strong so many women really are when it comes down to it. And how so many women will speak up for other women and for children even in the face of abuse and threats.

That’s true and it’s a lovely thought to keep front and centre.

I used to be on the side of the fence that sex binary i.e you are either a man or a woman. (Leaving aside intersex people as I feel people often use them as a stick to beat others with). But what does what someone call themselves and their genitals got to do with you? We'd all be much happier if we could all live and let live. If a man is going to assault or rape you he isn't going to go to the trouble of buying a dress and a wig and calling himself Jessica.
Oh I think he might especially if he fetishises womanhood. Someone on twitter recently collected and showed numerous pornographic videos filmed and released by trans "women" themselves. The videos were all filmed in public women's toilets but they only want to pee apparently

I also don't understand why, a few years ago, the idea of women and girls having single sex spaces wasn't controversial and everyone seemed to understand the need...but now all of a sudden the very idea is bigoted? Even domestic abuse shelter and prisons where the women are extremely vulnerable

This was exactly my experience. Last year I suddenly realised that my views were now "transphobic" and I saw other women in facebook groups getting dog piled for stating biological facts. Luckily I found refuge in GC groups which were hugely welcoming. I don't know how I could have been so oblivious. I'm quite young too.

Yes! Me too @Kittenbittenmitten it's as though the agenda to violate women's boundaries has been snuck in under the radar. The "discussions" kept quiet/silenced as much as possible so that by the time institutions come to the decision to act on this, it's too late. Women are smacked with the sudden shock and realisation that what we thought was our space, has been taken away and we are bigots for not wanting to lose something that makes us feel safe.
As though suddenly all that progress we thought we'd made with women's rights and women's safety (in bloody 2021!!!!) was so shallow that is being so easily undone..on the say so of a few males.
And all the lefty men too...as if they were just waiting for an acceptable outlet for their hatred of women.

Sorry for the rant, I'm just so angry at the situation.

My 19yr old is horrified by this.
She doesn't want men in her female spaces and will speak up about it.

Transwomen are male, every one of them. Men are male.

There should be no sacred castes when it comes to safeguarding. Not because the male is a celebrity, a priest or a transwoman.

If your dd went into a changing room and behind her followed my dh’s 40 year old cousin (who came out as transgender 2 years ago) she may think again. This person is 6 foot 5 and built like a brick shit house but wearing pink sparkly items with images of Minney Mouse and painting their nails suddenly makes then female in their head even though they still carry full male genitalia. They expect full and complete rights to now go anywhere which was originally female exclusive including changing rooms, open or other.
I have a 13 year old dd too and she doesn’t feel the same way as your dd, she is quite concerned about it and feels uncomfortable as do her friends.

I think ‘be kind’ is a great principle and not one to be criticised. I think helpful debate is useful here, willing to listen to their views and to explain your own.

Oh poor you. At least you can drink wine. Maybe try the feminism chat board to find other people with similar views.

@ImaHogg

If your dd went into a changing room and behind her followed my dh’s 40 year old cousin (who came out as transgender 2 years ago) she may think again. This person is 6 foot 5 and built like a brick shit house but wearing pink sparkly items with images of Minney Mouse and painting their nails suddenly makes then female in their head even though they still carry full male genitalia. They expect full and complete rights to now go anywhere which was originally female exclusive including changing rooms, open or other. I have a 13 year old dd too and she doesn’t feel the same way as your dd, she is quite concerned about it and feels uncomfortable as do her friends.

Sheesh.

I’m (selfishly) glad I’ve only got one young one left., and the other ls are self-sufficient. I wouldn’t want to be doing the multiple-child juggle in loos and changing rooms these days.

To the young female teenagers that think we should allow men in the women’s changing rooms ; get them to have a shower with the curtain open whilst their Dad or brother’s older friend is in the same bathroom using the loo or having a shave. Let them out their money where their mouth is.

They’ve been brainwashed. The extremist activitists lobbied the schools directly for years and bullied/influenced the teaching and although the Department of Education eventually stepped in to stop the worst of the madness, there are teens walking around UK who were taught at school that there are male brains and female brains and sometimes one gets in the wrong body 🤣🤦‍♀️😢

They are also too young to realise why women need penis-free areas. Sadly as the female teenagers grow older they will come to realise why this is a problem.

I think it’s important not to humour this stuff. Don’t say oh wow that is interesting I hadn’t thought of that. Tell them what you believe.

@blameitonthecaffeine I'm 28 and I don't think it's sexist or transphobic. Massive generalisation

I’m so over this topic. There are only 2 genders. Unless someone has gone through the full body changeover etc etc they should not be allowed in any areas of the opposite sex

YANBU. Your DC are being naive idiots.

It is not unreasonable to not want fully intact males in women only spaces.

There has been polling on this.

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/07/16/where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights

"Britons support the right of transgender people to use facilities for their chosen gender, but oppose making the legal transition process easier"

"Across the survey two distinct groups of opinion emerged, based on politics, gender and age. Labour, Lib Dem and Remain voters, along with women and younger people, are likelier to hold more trans-friendly views than Conservative and Leave voters, men and older people."

"People tend to be fine with transgender people using facilities for their new gender , but not if they have not undergone gender reassignment surgery"

For example:
Transwomen should be allowed to use women's toilets. Yes 43% No 34%
(As above, if they have not had reassignment surgery) Yes 26-30% No 46%.

That's all respondents, not just women.

@VladmirsPoutine

This subject is really a mumsnet hobby horse!

I used to be on the side of the fence that sex binary i.e you are either a man or a woman. (Leaving aside intersex people as I feel people often use them as a stick to beat others with). But what does what someone call themselves and their genitals got to do with you? We'd all be much happier if we could all live and let live. If a man is going to assault or rape you he isn't going to go to the trouble of buying a dress and a wig and calling himself Jessica.

If certain lobbying groups get their way, then men won’t even need to go to the expense of forking out for dress/shoes/wigs.

Unfortunately your children have been brainwashed to be ‘woke’ just tell them you identify as an alien toaster and therefore need a shower for yourself.

Yawn, it'sstupid teenagers and the world jumping on a fucking ridiculous and offensive bandwagon

But what does what someone call themselves and their genitals got to do with you?

Why the obsession with genitals? I don’t need to see genitals to correctly sex someone post puberty. Irrespective of whichever the 100 or so genders they may identify as.

And if it’s not immediately clear it becomes so when they walk

But what does what someone call themselves and their genitals got to do with you?

Genitals, bone structure, hormones, height, build etc
Just look at Laurel Hubbard to see why it’s to do with every woman. Losing our sports as well woman of the year, losing our changing rooms, showers, privacy, safety.

@Soverymuchfruit

I doubt the scenario you have in mind would happen often. A trans woman pre op is likely to be too self conscious about her naked body and how others would respond, to use a communal shower like that anyway.

So if a genuine (pre-op) TW is unlikely to wish to use the female facilities, it then follows that any intact male demanding access to them is likely instead to be a predator.