Punished at school for saying ‘flipping heck’

[porkincider]

At pick up yesterday the teacher asked me to wait behind for a minute as my 8yo Ds had been put on red (they have a traffic light system- start on green, if really good go to silver and then gold, if naughty go to orange and then red. Get on red twice in a term and you have to go to the headmaster’s office). Ds has always been really good, he’s incredibly shy, hates drawing attention to himself and normally just bobs along on green every week.

He looked mortified when he came out and the teacher told me he’d had to go straight onto red for bad language during PE. Ds tried to say “I only said” but teacher interrupted and said “please don’t say it again, you’ll only get yourself into more trouble”. Anyway, he apologised, we walked home and that was that.

I asked him what he’d said and why when we got home and he told me he missed a goal in PE and said “oh, flipping heck”. I asked him if he was sure that was what he’d said, that he hadn’t said the F word but he was adamant he hadn’t and was in tears of frustration at this point as he kept trying to tell the teacher what he’d said but she just kept telling her not to repeat it.

I messaged the teacher on the school app and said “Ds is very sorry for upsetting you today. He’s adamant that he only said ‘flipping heck’ though and wanted me just tell you that he would never say anything ruder than that either at school or at home”. Teacher immediately messaged back to say that she was aware that was what he’d said, it was more the tone that he’d said it in that she was disappointed about (which wasn’t what she’d told me at pick up) and that I needed to ensure that he was aware that language of that type is not acceptable at school.

Is ‘flipping heck’ rude? I say it all the time and I’m certain that is where he’s picked it up from but I’ve never told him not to say it. I thought it was just a nonsense exclamation.

@Funfortheroad

I mean, it's not ideal but the reaction is way out of proportion. I think a quiet word about it not being a phrase to use in school would have been the most she should have done

Sounds like he argued with the teacher quite a bit, which probably wound up the situation more than it needed to be:

he kept trying to tell the teacher what he’d said but she just kept telling her not to repeat it.

• Once should have been enough - she asked him not to repeat it so that should have been the end of it.

The traffic light system is disgusting and no decent school uses humiliation as discipline.

And I do giggle at the parents on here who say they would NEVER say 'flipping heck' in front of their child and would be 'disappointed' to hear it, because I know what's waiting for them up ahead in senior school, sooner than they think...

That comment was aimed at me, nice. Next time @ me in it.

I wouldn’t say it in front of my young daughter. She can say it as much as she likes when she is older and not a small child. It’s a phrase that sound harsh to my ears. I don’t think it’s swearing, I just don’t think it’s polite. My parents wouldn’t let me say it when I was growing up, but my parents are immigrants though so perhaps felt differently about some phrases.

@LincolnshireYellowBelly

I’m a teacher, and wouldn’t raise it as an issue if one of my class said it, however, I don’t encourage my own children to say it. Flipping heck is an example of a minced oath, which means words that are said to represent swear words. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minced_oath Therefore many people don’t see it as polite

Honest question. If they don't say that, does whatever they say in replacement out of frustration also become a word to represent a swear word as theyre purposefully saying it instead of something forbidden. And then arguably that could continue until all words are used and everything is wrong to say ;) "oh diddle broomsticks". Nope, can't say that as you're only saying that instead of flipping heck which you wouldve said instead of fucking hell.

'Oh bother!' 'Oh no!' I don't think those are mincing anything?

I recognise the concept of the minced oath but didn't know that was what they're called. I remember being told 'blimey' was 'gor blimey' = god blind me. Blasphemy, rather than swearing.

I particularly detest 'sugar' for 'shit' as it's such a twee yet knowing substitution.

The 'traffic light' behaviour display system sounds completely normal to me. Surprised to hear the hate really. It's a way of trying to get young primary children to sit still, listen and be ready to learn etc. I don't think younger ones feel 'shamed', it's about the relationship between them and the teacher.

@lottiegarbanzo oh bother is oh bugger and oh my is oh my God.

@lottiegarbanzo I loathe it. Child with sn and he couldn’t get off the red! The real issue is probably how it’s applied, but if the same rules are applied to every dc and the same sanctions some kids are permanently on red / thunder

I said 'oh no!' not 'oh my'.

So if I say 'please don't bother me' I'm saying 'please don't bugger me'? I don't think so. There's a perfectly reasonable derivation for the use of 'bother!' as an exclamation, which is 'oh, I have caused myself some bother here'.

We really do not a list of acceptable exclamations.

Though to me, tone really is key.

Yes, I can see how the behaviour display could be used unkindly and inappropriately. I've never seen it as traffic lights, it's always been phrased in various terms relevant to the state of readiness to learn. I think it morphed into points for good things only, by Y2.

@RedactedTaeFeck - that is so cruel - your poor DS. Why on earth didn't his own teacher over ride it? So, so grateful my DD's school doesn't do any of this nonsense not sure I could hold my temper if they did.

@HappyTimeTunnelDinosaur

Sorry, I disagree and think it is bad language that should not be used in school.

Oh, come on! "Flipping" is a word used to give emphasis, and "heck" expresses surprise! How is that bad language??

@lottiegarbanzo

The 'traffic light' behaviour display system sounds completely normal to me. Surprised to hear the hate really. It's a way of trying to get young primary children to sit still, listen and be ready to learn etc. I don't think younger ones feel 'shamed', it's about the relationship between them and the teacher.

Sure they do if they're always on red , or their name constantly goes down and the whole class can see exactly who's "in trouble" even if they don't know why. It can also be very demotivating for some children, those who struggle and "middle of the road" kids alike.

We stopped doing that at my school years ago.

Personally I think teacher was ridiculous for making such a big fuss however it could be me in the wrong as I was surprised at another parents utter shock when dd 11 said 'damn it' when broke something she was working on recently (said light hearted/laughing not deadly serious).

@lottiegarbanzo - my DD's school and most schools nowadays manage to do it without such punitive means, thankfully.

I am a TA in KS1. I wouldn’t be punishing anyone for using that. If a child is frustrated and says or does something inappropriate we would take them off for a few minutes to calm down if they needed it and then have a chat where we might say “I can see you are angry. I get it, and I understand why, but what you did wasn’t ok. Do you know why? What could you do instead?” And then depending on the circumstances they might need to go and say sorry, or put something right. Sometimes they have to go to the head, and explain they said something silly. That is the punishment- she doesn’t do anything else beyond “I’m very sad someone would say that in our school. Please don’t say it again, ok.”

But you need to be led by the child. I had a child say c*nt a few weeks ago. But when I talked to him he had no idea what it meant. He’d heard an older child say it in town the day before and knew it was a bit naughty, but not much beyond that. We explained it was a really nasty word and that we really, really don’t want to hear it in school as if he uses it again he will be in a lot of trouble. And that we would need to tell his mum. But there’s no point in laying into him for something he really didn’t get.
We have a whizz chart not a traffic light system. Kids go up for good things. We do remind them that they can move their names down again but it almost never happens and if it does it’s with plenty of warning. Something like repeatedly being silly during a lesson. They would be given several chances before we even issued a warning for moving names down. I think I’ve done it once in the last three years, and even then the kid got to move their name up again by the end of the lesson because they did then behave. In general we have a policy of sanctions ‘fitting a crime!’ Doing something good isn’t wiped out by being daft later on so they can still have their reward for the good thing they did.
I don’t like the humiliation involved in a traffic light system.

But I wouldn’t even register flipping heck to be honest. And if it was something they weren’t supposed to say but was still quite mild I would just do the eyebrow raised with ‘excuse me?’ That is usually more than enough!

Ridiculous and OTT of the teacher. Really, she must live a very sheltered life.

The traffic light system sounds crap too, as a public display it could be quite humiliating and demotivating.

This just reminds me of a friend's son. He and a few friends had been waiting to get into class and discussing whether they would shag each others mums... but they were 5 and thought it meant hug, one of the boys dads had been caught saying he'd shag someone and when asked by DC had said it meant hug.

It took a while for it to be sorted out and the eventual reaction from school was to say to the boys that it wasn't a nice word and not a nice thing to say about people and not to use it in future but it was fine to say that someone's mum looked like they'd give nice hugs...

No one was punished.

@lottiegarbanzo

The 'traffic light' behaviour display system sounds completely normal to me. Surprised to hear the hate really. It's a way of trying to get young primary children to sit still, listen and be ready to learn etc. I don't think younger ones feel 'shamed', it's about the relationship between them and the teacher.

It might be “normal” as in commonly used, but it is definitely labelling and shaming children. It’s not just about the relationship with the teacher- isn’t it often on a public board on display so anyone can see who is green and red?

My son once got 23 red cards in a similar system in a single day...

The teacher called me in and folded her arms and asked what I thought of it. I said it shows your system doesn't work and did you not try a different method after the second card...

Not all educators are created equally. It's a lesson in life though - some people are petty little things who let a small amount of power go to their head.

For all those saying it's not "fucking hell" - sorry but what exactly is the difference? Really?

It's swearing and it's being used as such. It may be an older swear word that has lost its shock value among adults - this happens with use.
e.g. I remember "shit" being thought of as a bad swear word, but today it's common place and doesn't even raise an eyebrow any more.

So the question is not about what particular curse the kid used, but whether or not it's reasonable to tell an 8 year old off for swearing at all?

Sounds like a bunch of nonsense and teacher is being unfair and petty. I would go out of my way to ensure your son doesn’t get in to anymore trouble over it. Definitely not worth a red or double orange card. Teacher needs to get a grip,

For all those saying it's not "fucking hell" - sorry but what exactly is the difference? Really?

This is one of the dimmest takes.

The difference is it's not 'fucking hell'. It's not swearing.

@strangeshapedpotato really?

Of course there’s a difference!

In a few years time he’ll REALLY know the difference when he goes to high school, where, according to my (almost) 15 year old, the teachers use the REAL swear words!

It’s language and expression isn’t it, it’s not swearing and even swearing has its place in our language!

Silly moment from the teacher imo! In fact a really fucking silly moment from the teacher!

As a teacher, if this was the first time I would say something like I know that’s not swearing but it still isn’t appropriate, please don’t say it again. If it continued after that I’d look at consequences

I can see where the teacher may find even "substitute" curse words inappropriate, however, her response was way, way over the top. Kinda like seeing a fly and grabbing a bazooka.