I want to help DS, age 18, spot red flags in his GFs, what are they?

[Bananasinpyjamas21]

I feel like it took me a long time to spot red flags in men, and I went through some rubbish relationships as a result. However, I’ve never really seen good advice about how to spot red flags in potential girlfriends.

DS, age 18, is a lovely boy (well I guess I’m biased as his Mum). He’s had three girlfriends already, and of course he’s still very young and has years ahead. But we had a discussion recently as his last girlfriend was very intense, and it affected his friendships and his studies. One day he talked to her for 10 hours online! If he went out with his friends she’d bombard him with FaceTime/Snapchat calls. She needed constant attention and started to demand it so much he was losing friends and getting into trouble at University. She said that he was ‘the one she’d marry’ and then dumped him out of the blue onto the next. He was devastated. I said that she showed a few ‘red flags’ and that it was good to avoid these.

I know teenagers can be intense so it’s a little tricky. Also I know that men are generally less likely to be abused by women in relationships. However DS is quite easily led and doesn’t have natural judgement. For me ‘red flags’ in women are:

• always wanting to know what you are doing, where you are going to an extreme degree
• being extremely needy and child like (it made DS feel great to ‘help’)
• getting very cross if they are not responded to immediately
• ignoring any requests you have such as ‘I can’t talk I need to do an essay’
• having a lot of problems that they tell you about in the first few weeks

@Aozora13

I think it depends how you’re going about it. If your son wants your support to learn about healthy relationships, that’s great. I’d focus on issues of respect, consent, boundaries, control and generally being nice and kind to your loved ones. That way you remove the gender stereotypes out of it and you also are clear that it cuts both ways. And I’d probably talk about things like listening when someone tells you who they are, not trying to rescue people or change people and not staying in a relationship that’s hurting you out of guilt or obligation. Which to be fair are all things I hope to teach my daughters.

Otherwise you run the risk of sounding like my terrible mother in law who was forever warning her precious boys of the dangers of terrible women and their gold digging ways…

This ^^ with bells on.

This takes the gender stereotypes out of it, as shows you (any ‘you’) what you should be looking for in a loving, mutually respectful partner.

And what @YellowFish12 says.

Well done OP.
I, and I'm sure lots of us, learned a good deal about life and relationships from reading. I think novels allow you a look into someone else's world and help develop EQ. I also remember being very interested in the problem pages of J17 and the like. Sweeping statement, but I imagine far more girls than boys read YA fiction and agony aunt columns.
I think that teenagers who attended single sex schools may have an unrealistic image of the opposite sex as being more glamorous than they truly are.
I think that many if not all of the same characteristics that make someone a good potential friend apply to choosing a gf/bf; it’s not an entirely different set of criteria.

'Only on mn would a mother, being asked for relationship advice by her teenage son, be called creepy and be criticised for overstepping.'

She isnt being asked.

@Tlollj

I think you’re doing a good thing personally. We hear lots about teaching girls and women about red flags, quite rightly, I don’t see why we can’t reach our sons the same. Being controlling over friends and time apart. Not having any thing in common. Expecting to be paid for on every occasion. Not having dramatic relationships with her family and friends.

I agree. We witter on about red flags and supporting young women. MN is crammed with pages of advice on the subject. So yes, discussion as and when the opportunity or need arises with your child is a useful thing. Gaslighting, manipulative and abusive behaviour, head games in general are not linked to one sex. I’d probably do it on an incident by incident basis, discussion and support. Giving my child another POV on something from someone whose judgement they trust. But they make their own choices as an adult, and sometimes all you can do is try and be there when the shit hits the fan.

@a8mint

'Only on mn would a mother, being asked for relationship advice by her teenage son, be called creepy and be criticised for overstepping.'

She isnt being asked.

This. She isn’t being asked. She claims to know all the red flags for boy behaviour. Interested to know what conversations you’ve had with your son about consent, harassment, social media use etc? If he’s been held captive online for 10 hours he’s probably not old enough to be dating these vixens anyway. Teaching him how to switch his phone off might be a useful skill

@Bananasinpyjamas21

It’s also funny because what made me come to mumsnet was a year or so ago there was a post from a woman saying she’d had not guidance from anyone on red flags in male potential dates. Also saying she wanted her own daughter not to make the same mistakes.

She got LOADS of advice. Lots of women advising. Not one poster as I remember told her that her daughter should just ‘get on with it’ and that she was being ‘creepy’. And not one poster said it was misogynistic to be talking about red flags in men in relationships. And it was a big long thread!

The most misogyny I’ve ever encountered was here - on Mumsnet. The irony... People in real life are far more balanced and open.

@a8mint

'Only on mn would a mother, being asked for relationship advice by her teenage son, be called creepy and be criticised for overstepping.'

She isnt being asked.

I was being asked by my son. He often asks my advice. I said that on the thread. Or perhaps you didn’t read it?

Interested to know what conversations you’ve had with your son about consent, harassment, social media use etc? Have had loads of conversations with my son about that. He’s a very respectful lovely guy. Are you really interested in what I talk about with my son or are you just wanting to slag me off @RealhousewifeofStoke ?

Agreed @LateAtTate there is SO much misogyny on this thread! It’s a bit unbelievable and very sad. Many of us are bringing up sons and with so much ‘men just get on with it’ it’s no wonder there are so many problems in marriages with men being emotionally stunted.

Like with anything. Less focus on what to avoid and more about what a healthy relationship looks like.

Another totally batshit thread
WTAF is up with mumsnet today.
Weird.
Op you sound like a sane normal person who wants to encourage your ds to have healthy relationships.

I wish my parents had done that. When I was his age

@Bananasinpyjamas21

Also, anyone who thinks that kids/adults just ‘pick up’ how to look for red flags is being incredibly naive. And it’s women any advice is aimed at on the whole, so there is a gap where men are just left to it.

Ask yourself, do you think it’s important to be aware of red flags?

If you don’t then fine. If you do, then who do you think is going to talk about red flags with an older teen/young man? Their mates certainly don’t have the experience. School won’t. Social media won’t.

And just laughing at the people who are saying I’m inserting myself unwanted into my sons’s love life! Jesus where in my post is there any evidence of that? So weird. I have a great relationship with DS and sorry if others don’t but that’s your problem.

I didn't pick up anything about healthy relationships and red flags. At 19 I got involved with an incredibly controlling drug user with mental health problems and my parents thought I was old enough to have privacy in my relationship (aka did fuck all to support me to see what was happening) I ABSOLUTELY talk to my DS about relationship red flags. Mine is only 13 but these days the kids have been having proto'relationships with each other since year 5 and the girls especially seem very keen to mimic what they view as grown up relationship behaviour. I talk to him about the language they use such as posting 'taken by XX' with a picture of a padlock on their Instagram and why that's not good, he tells me about manipulative behaviour such as when his friend renamed his girlfriend 'bitch' in his phone because she broke up with him, and when his girlfriend told him he should do more for her like carrying her bags and if he wasn't 'more of a gentlemen' she would break up with him...

Damn I wish my parents had talked to me about relationships. I wish it so much.

@YellowFish12 like your list there, sounds very grounded @FierceBarrie I’d query whether we can take gender stereotypes out of it. Perhaps being open with our kids that there stereotypes but don’t need to be? I’ve had a few discussion with DS with him feeling that he ‘had to be the responsible one’, that he ‘had to pay’, had to initiate, had to compliment a lot but not receive compliments, had to ‘look after’ the woman. He was genuinely surprised when I said it was OK not to ‘be the man’ but see that woman as a person. He said that there were a lot of expectations when he was dating that he felt he should fulfil.
@Somarefuser great advice, just being ‘there’ I guess and giving a bit of perspective. When he was dumped by his GF who was very intense, I just commented on what it seemed like from the outside, ‘It seemed a bit intense’ and it allowed him to chat about that.
@villainousbroodmare also great advice, our friendships and navigating them are the basis for relationships in general. DS chats a lot about his mates, they fall out, get stressed with each other, support each other, but all the time learning about how to compromise but keep their own too.
Thanks for all the constructive and thoughtful comments.

I don’t think I know every single red flag in men btw! Didn’t say I did. However I do know a lot more than I did, and one of the threads here on mumsnet was absolutely fantastic. It was ‘gendered’ as in it was specific to men, and specific examples and was quite educational.

Those are good examples for both sexes to learn OP.

I’d add
Isolating from friends
Always always be responsible for your own contraception
Expect 50/50 on dates and bills
Know the signs of emotional and physical abuse

@3scape

Like with anything. Less focus on what to avoid and more about what a healthy relationship looks like.

Good advice too.

@3scape

Like with anything. Less focus on what to avoid and more about what a healthy relationship looks like.

Yes! That's a sensible way to go. Negative situations that arise need to be looked at individually rather than seeing if it matches a list. What could be a red flag in one scenario, might not be in another. There are of course things that people should never accept. Just be there if DS needs guidance, unless you're worried he'll be take advantage of.

He needs to know he should always wear condoms and never trust a woman who tells him he doesn’t need to wear them. He absolutely does unless he wants to become a parent. So many tales of men claiming they were ‘trapped’ by women but they also didn’t wear a condom so 🤷🏻‍♀️.

Other than that I’d say blowing his phone up constantly is a red flag, as is isolating him from friends and family.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss Yes agreed too. DS had one girl who he kissed once, who started stalking him and shouting at him at parties. He genuinely didn’t know that wasn’t OK until I said - ‘how would you feel if it was a boy doing that to a girl?’
@Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep oh me too. So sorry you went through it. I got involved with a really nice guy at age 17 but unknown to me was a drug addict and I had no idea of the signs. I was so naive.
@Taliskerskye thanks!

@Whyhello VERY good advice. Condoms have been bunged into his room.

I did get some advice at different times from parents, but not too much. Looking back at the time I think much of it was accurate, but I of course mostly ignored it (except for one or two specific but important instances).

@trunumber

The responses are really weird on here. Are you all not teaching your daughters about healthy relationships either?

If you think kids will just learn, I suspect you're mistaken. Without his mum he will likely learn from his friends and from porn, bad for OP's son and any future girlfriends he has. Or instead he could learn about healthy relationships from someone he clearly trusts (having asked his mums opinion). We all talk to the people we trust about our relationships, this time it just happens to be his mum.

It would explainthose posts where you wonder why the hell someone is with someone

I think you are right to give your son advice on what is and isn’t a healthy relationship. If someone is overly needy and not willing to allow their partner to have friends and pursue their own interests, then that’s not a good thing. I always say to my children that a relationship or friendship is supposed to enhance your life, not make you miserable or feel bad or anxious. If someone consistently takes from you more than they give and wants to monopolise you and control you, it’s better to remove that person from your life. A relationship is a partnership, they don’t own you or you them.

Definitely take charge of your own contraception. Even if a girlfriend is on the pill, a condom should also be worn. Not just to avoid pregnancy but also to protect your health and that of your partner.

Never letting him be anywhere without her or bombarding him with calls/messages if he is.

Never offering to pay for anything.

Making unreasonable demands. E.g. One of my brother's exes asked him to drive across the country to see her overnight when he was tired from finishing his exams. He said no and she emotionally manipulated him so that he did go. In a healthy relationship, the woman would have let him sleep after his exams and/or the man would have set his boundary and stuck with it.