I want to help DS, age 18, spot red flags in his GFs, what are they?

[Bananasinpyjamas21]

I feel like it took me a long time to spot red flags in men, and I went through some rubbish relationships as a result. However, I’ve never really seen good advice about how to spot red flags in potential girlfriends.

DS, age 18, is a lovely boy (well I guess I’m biased as his Mum). He’s had three girlfriends already, and of course he’s still very young and has years ahead. But we had a discussion recently as his last girlfriend was very intense, and it affected his friendships and his studies. One day he talked to her for 10 hours online! If he went out with his friends she’d bombard him with FaceTime/Snapchat calls. She needed constant attention and started to demand it so much he was losing friends and getting into trouble at University. She said that he was ‘the one she’d marry’ and then dumped him out of the blue onto the next. He was devastated. I said that she showed a few ‘red flags’ and that it was good to avoid these.

I know teenagers can be intense so it’s a little tricky. Also I know that men are generally less likely to be abused by women in relationships. However DS is quite easily led and doesn’t have natural judgement. For me ‘red flags’ in women are:

• always wanting to know what you are doing, where you are going to an extreme degree
• being extremely needy and child like (it made DS feel great to ‘help’)
• getting very cross if they are not responded to immediately
• ignoring any requests you have such as ‘I can’t talk I need to do an essay’
• having a lot of problems that they tell you about in the first few weeks

@0blio

I wish I'd had a mum like you OP. I sleepwalked into two abusive marriages at a very young age, I had no self esteem, no boundaries and not a clue how I deserved to be treated or how to treat a partner. My parents saw what was happening for years and said nothing.

Absolutely keep talking to your son, he's lucky to have you.

@oblio you made my day! Many thanks

I find it really weird that just because my son likes to talk to me, and asked my advice, that replies could be so vociferous saying that I am ‘creepy’ and I’m a ‘red flag’! People’s minds are really strange when it comes to mother’s and sons, like a preconceived notion that men just ‘get on with it’ and don’t need their ‘creepy’ mother around. No, best I just tell him to man up, get out in life and we keep a very distant relationship! Now that’s what I call misogyny…

It’s also funny because what made me come to mumsnet was a year or so ago there was a post from a woman saying she’d had not guidance from anyone on red flags in male potential dates. Also saying she wanted her own daughter not to make the same mistakes.

She got LOADS of advice. Lots of women advising. Not one poster as I remember told her that her daughter should just ‘get on with it’ and that she was being ‘creepy’. And not one poster said it was misogynistic to be talking about red flags in men in relationships. And it was a big long thread!

Honestly, stay out of it and let him learn. You can tell him all you want, but until he figures it out for himself, your best bet will be just to be there for him; be his safe place where he can speak/vent without judgement. You aren’t wrong, the gf sounds like a nightmare but your ds’s relationship isn’t that much of your business.

I find it really weird that just because my son likes to talk to me, and asked my advice, that replies could be so vociferous saying that I am ‘creepy’ and I’m a ‘red flag’! People’s minds are really strange when it comes to mother’s and sons, like a preconceived notion that men just ‘get on with it’ and don’t need their ‘creepy’ mother around. No, best I just tell him to man up, get out in life and we keep a very distant relationship! Now that’s what I call misogyny…

Oh, op...Don't you know that you should have cut all ties the minute he turned 18? No matter that you had hitherto a good communicative relationship with your son, the minute he became an ADULT, you should have refused to engage with him, even if your opinions were solicited, and confined your conversation to asking him politely when he was going to move out for good!

All the posters banging on about misogyny - do you not realise that the men least likely to be misogynistic are those who have a loving, mutually respectful relationship with the females in their lives, such as that which the op describes as having with her ds? You really are incredibly shortsighted if you can't see that.

I think young men are not given enough of an outlet to talk about their emotional feelings and given very little worthwhile advice from other men. I think what you are doing is great.
I think through their female friends women have lifelong emotional support and advice on their relationships from other women. I don’t think male friends offer anything like the same sort of support to other men.
I also agree no one would bat an eye if a mum was advising her 18 year old daughter.
I think young men struggle such a lot with emotional relationships in their late teens and 20’s and very much need support and advice and I think that if they can talk to a female with total honesty that they love and trust it can only be a good thing.

@HunkyPunk Ha ha yes I should be booting him out of the door to be manly, not talk about his feelings, never ask advice from women god no, hang out with the lads and drink beer…

I have a daughter of 22 and a son of 14 and I've spoken to both of them about what we should expect in a relation and what we do not accept. I currently have lots of age appropriate chats with my youngest as I can already see he's a big softy and could be taken advantage of. So we chat about how we treat girls and how we can expect to be treated in return
It’s a good idea but you need to be pretty objective which I’m sure many parents struggle with. I am sure my mil would have looked at my dh as a teenager and thought you are the sweetest kindest most loving boy in the universe, I hope you find someone worthy of you who is willing to support you being your amazing self. The very last kind of advice he needed since he had all that instilled in him from a baby. He was quite selfish and self centred and needed to learn a lot about giving and youre not the centre of our relationship universe. I love him very much but his mum would have done no help at all trying to tell him what to watch out for!

@CaraherEIL I really agree with what you are saying. Young men are one of the high risk groups for mental health problems, and relationships are really important to their mental wellbeing. DS doesn’t have an available older brother. His father only sees him 3x a year. I’ve been a single parent of him since he was a baby, so he doesn’t have a good role model of a healthy, happy relationship.

I think you’re doing a great thing OP. And I think if you’d phrased it as you want to help your DS have healthy respectful relationships then the feedback would be different.

So my advice means that way.
I’d be talking to him about having a relationship develop at a healthy pace. So not too intense, thinking about your own personal boundaries and making sure they are not being overstepped.
I’d also make sure that he knows to take responsibility for his own contraception and is very aware that he has no say over what happens if a sexual partner of his becomes pregnant

I don’t personally think ‘telling’ someone is the way though. The way me and my son have been for a while is that he brings up problems, because he knows he can trust me, and because he knows I’m pretty practical, grounded and generally have good advice. I throw in my penny’s worth, he responds, I think, he thinks, we debate a bit. As his parent, I know him pretty well so I will sometimes say “I think you have a tendency to be too trusting too quickly, do you think that’s fair?’.

DS is also concerned about treating women OK, with the me too movement on his mind. We’ve talked a bit about that. I’m sure he talks with his friends too. He’s told me two of his mates have just started to open up to him. One from a very traditional and religious family where ‘boys just got on with it’, and this guy has zero relationship with is mum and just fishing with his Dad (not much talking!), and DS says he feels really lucky that he can just talk to me easily.

I learn from him a lot too. It’s important to be respectful too! Talking about relationships is OK you know people with young adults! Wanting to know every detail isn’t but in no sense did I indicate that I have done this. And I did not indicate in any way that I was giving unsolicited advice. But you wouldn’t with a daughter either would you? Mother’s and daughter’s telling each other everything wouldn’t be appropriate either.

However I know my parents never took an interest in me at all, completely hands off. They thought it was best I guess. However me and my siblings had all sorts of problems, never told our parents, had terrible relationships. I wish I’d had someone who said ‘look you are worth more than being treated like that’. Relationships are so important - a great one can mean a secure, loving family, a bad one…

I think it's a great idea, particularly as it sounds like he's broken up with her, so no conversation is directed to one person, or be seen to be undermining a relationship.

I think it boils down to respect and trust. If they both respect each other's opinions and trust that they are telling truth (about where they are, who they are with, whether they are exclusive etc), that's a pretty good start.

My son is in an intense relationship that probably ticks some of those red flags, but whilst intense it is respectful and honest. Yes I would prefer to see my DS with someone less needy, but that is absolutely his decision. She always treats him with respect and vice versa.

So I guess my point is that some good relationships tick some of those flags, but if they tick several (or all) perhaps that is not something to get caught in. But if someone has one or two ticks, it might be fine, as long as the relationship has trust and respect.

I think it s a great conversation to have with your kids personally.

I'd say a big one would be don't force yourself into situations you're not comfortable with - so don't go climbing if you really hate climbing, just for the sake of being with someone. Of course he should try new things, but not to the extent he's doing it just to please someone. I spent way too much of my youth doing that to please boyfriends.

I have 17 yo. I tell him to trust his gut.. if he’s not happy for any reason it’s time to talk. With her, with me as a sounding board (no judgement) whatever. Trust his own judgment… same with daughter. They find their own red flags… you are there to bounce off

@cupsofcoffee

Ask yourself, do you think it’s important to be aware of red flags?

Yes, but I didn't learn about them from my dad. I learnt about them from reading magazines, internet forums, talking to my friends and well, experience.

Why is it better to learn from magazine articles than a trusted parent?

I think all teenagers have red flags in relationships because they are immature and haven't figured it out.

I remember my first boyfriend was incredibly intense. Waiting for me at the bus stop with flowers, crying when I had to go home, etc etc. 20 years later he's married with kids and I'm sure is a lovely normal man.

I don't think you can judge the actions of an 18 year old in love aginst those of an adult.

@osbertthesyrianhamster

I wonder how this would read if the OP's daughter were involved with a man like this.

You’re not really wondering, are you?

You’re clumsily trying to imply the reaction would be different. You think you’ve pulled a ‘GOTCHA!’

Some people might expect the reaction to be different given the massively different likelihood of violence.

In fact reading this reminded me of how many ‘red flags’ we look for in men are about trying to reduce the likelihood we will be beaten, raped or murdered.

How are you so sure that your son isn't the one giving off the red flags?

It seems men can do no wrong.

I wish my mother had talked to me about what to expect and what not to put up with in relationships.

I bet half the posters on here railing at OP for being misogynistic have happily made snide remarks on other threads about MiLs or “crazy ex-gfs” or OW or new partners.

I think rather than point out specific red flags it might be better to have a general conversation about boundaries, both making healthy ones and respecting those of his partner.

I think some people are getting the idea that you're sitting him down and having an awkward talk like Jim and his dad in American Pie but I read it more like these are either organic conversations or he is instigating relationship talk. I come from a long line of people putting up with miserable relationships so it sounds like a good idea to me!

Good idea OP

What about printing him parts of this?

www.utoledo.edu/depts/police/pdfs/Healthy_Boundaries.pdf

It's the healthy relationship wheel but also has lists of healthy behaviours and red flag behaviours. It's written as if for a woman in some parts but should apply equally for a man

I think it should be tought in schools actually.

Everyone should be tought what to do in the event of abusive relationships and how to see the red flags.

I think offer general advice but it's going to be hard to switch that off and not offer opinions about his specific partner at the time. The biggest one for me would be take your time, don't get married before you're 30 and always wear a condom!

@arethereanyleftatall

Ugh. Hugely misogynistic post.

No it's not. Unless her Don was gay why would she talk to himabout red flags to look for in men?

DS is quite easily led and doesn’t have natural judgement

I think you need to help your son address these two things. It will cut down many problems if he can make his own decisions/choices and not be easily lead.

OP I disagree with a lot of the responses here advising you to ‘butt out’ of your son’s relationships and leave him to it. This is especially so as he seems to appreciate your chats.
I once interviewed a relationships expert (psychologist) who specialised in teens. She made a lot of sense. She said that with most skills, eg learning to drive, learning a language or operate a computer, you are not expected to just work it out for yourself and learn from your own mistakes. Instead the best way is to have one or more teachers who have more experience than you and then you can benefit from their advice and guidance.
She and I agreed that the ‘hands off’ approach by our own parents had unfortunately contributed to our making dreadful relationship mistakes until very late in life. We also agreed that certain life skills, among them, doing our taxes, managing money, and what to expect from our relationships, should be taught/we should be given guidance from wise teachers who had more experience and knowledge.
Some things she advised for parents with teens:
Don’t be a hypocrite, ie if you want your teen to have a sensible attitude to drugs, don’t abuse alcohol, prescription drugs etc as teen will see the double standards and you will lose their respect.
Teach teens to judge a r’ship with their heads as well as their heart. We give more thought to choosing a new computer than choosing a new partner, which is nuts.
Don’t be more than one step ahead of your partner in terms of commitment. So if they won’t even agree to be exclusive with you, you don’t have unprotected sex or badger them to marry you etc. If you want to move a step in direction of more commitment, discuss with them, if necessary give them a little time to match you, and if they don’t, cut your losses and move on.
Of course if you don’t have good communication and respect with your teen, then no advice will be welcomed, but that doesn’t apply with the OP and her son.