I want to help DS, age 18, spot red flags in his GFs, what are they?

[Bananasinpyjamas21]

I feel like it took me a long time to spot red flags in men, and I went through some rubbish relationships as a result. However, I’ve never really seen good advice about how to spot red flags in potential girlfriends.

DS, age 18, is a lovely boy (well I guess I’m biased as his Mum). He’s had three girlfriends already, and of course he’s still very young and has years ahead. But we had a discussion recently as his last girlfriend was very intense, and it affected his friendships and his studies. One day he talked to her for 10 hours online! If he went out with his friends she’d bombard him with FaceTime/Snapchat calls. She needed constant attention and started to demand it so much he was losing friends and getting into trouble at University. She said that he was ‘the one she’d marry’ and then dumped him out of the blue onto the next. He was devastated. I said that she showed a few ‘red flags’ and that it was good to avoid these.

I know teenagers can be intense so it’s a little tricky. Also I know that men are generally less likely to be abused by women in relationships. However DS is quite easily led and doesn’t have natural judgement. For me ‘red flags’ in women are:

• always wanting to know what you are doing, where you are going to an extreme degree
• being extremely needy and child like (it made DS feel great to ‘help’)
• getting very cross if they are not responded to immediately
• ignoring any requests you have such as ‘I can’t talk I need to do an essay’
• having a lot of problems that they tell you about in the first few weeks

I think red flags are going to be slightly different for everyone. Some people love high drama in a partner, if they’re high drama themselves! Some people would see a man with a very close relationship with his mother as a red flag, whereas for me it would be a sign that his family values aligned quite closely with mine (and I’m not particularly sensitive to what some people would see as ‘interfering’, since my own family are all really involved in each other’s lives and I’m happy to accept or decline advice, help etc without feeling criticised or irritated). I would see someone that had a glass of wine with dinner every night and more at the weekend as a red flag that we wouldn’t get on, whereas lots of people love sharing that with their partner. I think the best thing you can teach your kid - and I say that from my experience of being a teen, not having one, I’m still in baby/toddler stage with mine - is a really good sense of their self, and their values, and what makes them happy and what they want their life to look like, and how their choice of partner can further that. Plus, to teach them what they can and should bring to the table as well, and to point it out if they’re acting like a dickhead. You can do your child and all their future partners a big favour by not assuming they’re always in the right or the one who’s being hard done to.

These girlfriends are likely young and inexperienced themselves. They are just learming how to date too and be in a relationship too. If you need to teach him anything, teach him to communicate with his girlfriends - both talk when something needs to be said, and listen when they need to speak.
Also be aware that you and he are different people. What you consider a red flag might not be a problem for him, and vice versa

Absolutely you are doing the right thing giving such advice.

There's been a recent post on here from a woman in Australia who's son has been subject to extreme emotional manipulation by a 16-year old (!) girlfriend. (how is that turning out BTW?)

Where else will he get such advice from? Certainly not from peers at school/college or work. Boys are pretty much on their own in this regard, and need guidance. There's also that legendary difference in suicide rates that nobody seems particularly troubled about.

As a number of posters have pointed out, not an eyelid would be raised if this was mother to daughter advice - which is usually plentiful and ongoing over decades.

Personally, I warn my own kids male and female to look out for any kind of control or manipulation, and never be scared to say no or just walk away.

Op, I don’t know why people are being so unkind to you. I think that the conversation you’re having with your DS is an excellent one. If all parents did that, there may be young adults that don’t fall into an abusive relationship. It’s important to teach your ds what is normal and what isn’t, if not, how will he know.
I would say some red flags (for young people in general, not just boys) are:

1. Being overly critical of family and friends and making it difficult to spend time with them alone.
2. Checking a phone
3. Sharing intimate pictures or over sharing intimate information to the point that friends make comments.
4. Constantly ringing or messaging with the expectation of an instant reply
5. Guilt tripping if spending time or going away with friends
6. Ignoring boundaries like “I can’t talk as I’m studying”.
7. Pressure to be more physical than the other person is comfortable with as “everybody does it”.
8. Nasty comments with apologies like “I only said it because you...”.
9. Clinginess and child like behaviour so the other person feels a responsibility towards the other person

10. Threats of self harm.

These are just a few. Obviously teenagers as you said are quite intense. I think it’s just important that he knows what is normal and what isn’t as in the moment, you don’t always have that perspective. It’s important that you also teach him that he can’t do those things either.

Good luck Op. It sounds like you’re preparing your son well for life in general.

My fist two boyfriends treated me badly and in a way I wish my mum had got a bit more involved. It probably would have made me blame myself a little less if I'd had an older adult on side, reassuring and advising me.

My dds seem to tell me everything about their relationships. They know that they can tell me as much or as little as they like, and that I'm here if they need advice. Dd1 had an issue recently and I think she appreciated some clearer, more 'adult' insight to the situation than she may have got from her peers.

But I do think that the red flags thing is relatable to both sexes, op, not just women. But im sure you know that anyway!

@Toilenstripes

Honestly I think it’s best for him to learn for himself. You shouldn’t be so involved in his private life.

I agree with this. There's some things you can put a blanket approach on like violence and cheating, but behaviours and reactions from both your DS and his GF will depend on the situation. As long as your DS knows he can come to you for advice if needed.

At the same time I've been noticing dd2 displaying some rather 'red flag' behaviour towards her gf recently, to be fair she is young and besotted, and I've been quite direct in telling her it's not acceptable and will only drive her gf away in the end.

A lot of these replies are ridiculous. If op was asking how to equip her daughter with the knowledge to stop her getting into the clutches of an abusive man, the replies would be supportive. Why is it different for a boy?

Man hating starts early on here, yeah.

Ignore the PP telling you to butt out and that your DS will learn from abusive relationships. Young men are most likely to keep quiet, distance themselves away from friends, and commit suicide.

All teens would benefit from understanding that it is ok to say no and recognising signs of emotional abuse/control. You don’t need to write a list though. Maybe he could read an article?

OP I don't know why you're getting such a hard time! I will absolutely be doing the same with my children. My parents gave very clear advice on relationships and I'm so glad they did. I've always been sure of my boundaries and secure enough to reach out for help as soon as I feel something is off - I definitely remember ringing my mum when I was at uni and asking her what she thought of certain situations in my dating life. Having open and honest communication is so important (how many threads on here have unhappy posters stuck in crap relationships saying they have no one to talk to irl?) and of course women have red flags, just as men do! Everyone should have healthy boundaries and good parenting is about guiding/advising your children as they grow - not just booting them out at 18yo and telling them to crack on. Unless you're going along on dates with him or dictating what he does/says then of course you aren't interfering!

I can't believe this thread. Only on mn would a mother, being asked for relationship advice by her teenage son, be called creepy and be criticised for overstepping.

If he is asking for advice, because they have a close relationship, then she is not overstepping or creepy.

If he is a straight male, then of course she is thinking about red flags displayed by women, and it is not misogynistic to do so.

If they are discussing relationships in general terms, then she is not inserting herself into any one particular relationship or criticising any one person.

OP, of course you are not doing wrong. How lovely that he can trust you and doesn't have to work it out for himself from websites and articles, or hope for good advice from equally inexperienced friends.

My dd talks to me about her relationships all the time.

I can only assume that your critics recognise themselves in your red flag list or realise that their own kids have no interest in asking them for advice.

I wish more young men could talk about healthy relationships and boundaries, as I think it would make them better partners themselves.

I don’t think what you are doing is wrong. What’s the point of us learning from our mistakes, if we then let the next generation make the same mistakes.
Me and DH didn’t t like our DS’s first proper girlfriend from the off. I don’t know what it was because was lovely and smiley, but there was a feeling. She then went on to separate him from us and he ended up living at her parents house and going on holiday with them. We, at an appropriate time when he was open to it, pointed out the things that she was doing that was controlling and wrong. After 3 years he finally got the strength to break away from her and come home, and the one thing he said is that he wished he’d listened to us.
The psycho is onto her next victim now, poor sod.

www.loveisrespect.org/

It's an American website aimed at younger people, so I don't know if the tone of it is what you're looking for, or would appeal to your son, but lots of useful information clearly laid out.

I wish my mother (or a teacher or anyone) had taught more about relationships, as all I seem to do is end up with rubbish boyfriends and finally an abusive husband! Even now she stays fairly hands off, even though I'm going through the toughest time of my life.

Oh - as for your actual question, I'd add:

• any physical aggression at all. Breaking things, throwing things, hitting or whatever. It's unacceptable in either sex (and I'd be driving the point home that he should never resort to physical violence either- if things have reached such a toxic level, the relationship is over and he needs to walk away).
• belittling, disrespect, mocking things he likes or things about him. Name-calling, being dismissive of his friends etc. This type of behaviour really wears down self-esteem. A partner should make you happy and celebrate you - not bring you down.
• the "my way or the highway" approach. If he can never do what he wants or have a say in joint decisions, having always to do what his partner says otherwise they'll leave him, this suggests he's with someone quite manipulative and selfish which will not be good in the long term. I guess this is a form of control which should always be avoided.

I'd say the same for both sexes to be honest! And actually it's good advice for friends too - friendships can also be toxic and sometimes need quite careful navigating.

@LateAtTate
Thank you for your list of red flag examples. Worth printing off and using as a basis for discussion.
The hostility from some posters is misplaced. These are the posters who would happily contribute to a list of red flags about MILS and SILS but don't like to think that some young women can be emotionally abusive in a relationship.
I do find the ´women can do no wrong' (unless they are MILS or SILS) stance really irritating on MN.
Young men are now being encouraged to open up and talk. This has to be a really good thing. I remember listening to a talk by a psychologist on Woman's Hour maintaining that no one listens to young men and how unhealthy that is for society.
OP you are absolutely doing the right thing.

I am quite surprised that anyone thinks this post is mysoginistic, it’s very relevant to the OPs situation.

I worry sometime that feminism has tipped over into always thinking the woman is the victim.

You are doing a great thing by opening up a conversation with your son about healthy expectations and boundaries in a relationship. And maybe about the different types of relationships that he can have like fun and quick ones, slow burn, and the goldilocks.

Having been in relationships with people screaming red flags, and having been the person with the red flags herself I would offer the following;

Having a problem with restrictive tastes and point blank refuse to try anything new even with support.

Someone who doesn’t take responsibility spontaneously for there part in things ie they always have an excuse

Someone who doesn’t feel that they have to apologise to people they love or uses sex as an “apology”

Someone who want to change the other person.

Someone who cannot manage conflict in a healthy way (I wish I had got on top of this earlier)

I think though the best thing I learned is that you cannot change a persons behaviour and if it doesn’t fit with what you need/want/ or can tolerate you need to nip it in the bud early and save yourself a whole lot of wasted time.

Well we’d have to scrap MN if relationship advice was unnecessary.

Good for you op for discussing this stuff with your dc.

@LateAtTate

Bad behaviour examples :

• Creating drama out of everything / emotional instability
• Lack of appreciation for partner and constant nitpicking/criticism
• Trying to ‘change’ things they don’t like about partner
• Expecting the man to pay for everything
• being clingy, insecure, controlling, unreliable , selfish, manipulative
• Emotional unavailability and lack of empathy
• Having no friends

Also some tend to occur more in women than men ...

Also as he gets older there are other red flags like misaligned life goals etc but it’s a bit too early to worry about that now

And those traits are specific to women? Because the OP already knows all the boy red flags

@2021x
Brilliant post. I agree that it is dangerous when some feminists always paint women as victims. I hate TV programmes that always show women as victims in society. I love it when women are shown as strong and grounded. It is healthy progress when men are encouraged to talk about feelings and not feel that they have to bottle stuff up and give way to women in case women cry and get upset ( there is a current thread on MN about women breaking down and crying if ever they are involved in an argument).
I think this is a great thread and the OP is to be congratulated for opening up this area for discussion.

Bravo OP, and yes this would be a whole different thread if it was a 'how do I equip my DD to spot red flags in men' title instead.

A lot of the points you raised fo both ways, of course they do! Men and women aren't so different and all can be be overly pushy, clingy, emotional for gain etc.

I have taken the route if speaking to my kids from a youngish age (but will continue to do so) that respect in relationships is most important, healthy boundaries are a must and communication.

I have born girls and boys and impart good behaviours from both of them to their future partners and to expect it back.

I don't think you're doing anything wrong at all.

I think you should make a general thing of it 'it's not ok when people do this ...' rather than make it out to be a

So sorry, pressed post too soon!

I wouldn't make it into a 'woman' issue. You could end up clouding his view. Make a general thing of it and leave it at that.
Your points are valid - you just need to be careful about how you express them.

@Bananasinpyjamas21

Also, anyone who thinks that kids/adults just ‘pick up’ how to look for red flags is being incredibly naive. And it’s women any advice is aimed at on the whole, so there is a gap where men are just left to it.

Ask yourself, do you think it’s important to be aware of red flags?

If you don’t then fine. If you do, then who do you think is going to talk about red flags with an older teen/young man? Their mates certainly don’t have the experience. School won’t. Social media won’t.

And just laughing at the people who are saying I’m inserting myself unwanted into my sons’s love life! Jesus where in my post is there any evidence of that? So weird. I have a great relationship with DS and sorry if others don’t but that’s your problem.

I agree with you @Bananasinpyjamas21.

But I think red flags for men are the same than women.

I know a few men who have been abused/DV. The situations are very similar than with women.
The best thing imo you can teach him is holding his own boundaries and self confidence. What are big No-No for him ( eg not being left alone, can’t see friends…).
Also be aware that similar behaviours hide under different name. A woman is said to be needy when she constantly ask where he is. A man doing the same would be labelled as controlling.

I think it depends how you’re going about it. If your son wants your support to learn about healthy relationships, that’s great. I’d focus on issues of respect, consent, boundaries, control and generally being nice and kind to your loved ones. That way you remove the gender stereotypes out of it and you also are clear that it cuts both ways. And I’d probably talk about things like listening when someone tells you who they are, not trying to rescue people or change people and not staying in a relationship that’s hurting you out of guilt or obligation. Which to be fair are all things I hope to teach my daughters.

Otherwise you run the risk of sounding like my terrible mother in law who was forever warning her precious boys of the dangers of terrible women and their gold digging ways…

I think the red flags are similar.

Do they try and make you feel bad if you want to do things without them with your friends and family?

Are there lots of emotional events / crisis when you try snd do something with your friends/family?

Are they happy for you eg get a job, go to uni and do the support you in the efforts - or do they try snd hold you back?

Is there any manipulation? “If you loved me you would…”

Do they try snd ruin things when you are out with friends/family eg by phoning or messaging lots? Having a crisis they need to be rescued from?

Are they pressuring you fir sex or any sex acts?

Do they respect your boundaries?

Are they nice to you in front of their friends or do they try snd out you down?