To not understand the vaccine drama

[Lei8133]

I am so confused by all this anti-vaxxer hate and mandating the COVID vaccine for certain professions extra. IMO if you have had the vaccine (which I have, well I’m awaiting my 2nd dose) surely people who haven’t had the jab pose no increased threat to us. The only people they cause harm to are fellow anti-vaxxers and other unvaccinated people for whom the risk is always present.

Surely whether we like it or not it is a personal choice whether you receive the vaccine or not and the freedom of choice is something we should all advocate for whether we agree with the decision or not surely?!? I just don’t get it and the divide it is causes amongst friends, family and the greater society is saddening. AIBU?!?! If so can someone explain to me how unvaccinated relatives and friends are potentially harmful to me despite having received the jab?

I think everyone has the right to refuse the vaccine (even if it is a stupid thing to do), but I think they should have their lives restricted (no right to use public transport, no sending their children to school, not allowed to attend large sporting events etc.). So that they do not endanger those who cannot have the vaccine. Choices have to have consequences

So it would appear you don't value bodily autonomy but rather you favour psychological torture and coercion. Would you have the same reaction if someone you knew took the vaccine and suffered an injury? oh well that's a consequence of his choice.
It should be a perfectly reasonable choice to not want to risk your health on the vaccine but some people have been very much brainwashed into thinking that if you won't have a foreign substance injected into your body then you're really selfish. Government payouts for vaccine injuries aren't very much and you must be suitably affected. The manufacturers are protected. Caution is a good thing

So that they do not endanger those who cannot have the vaccine
I find this incredibly sad. What has happened to make people think and feel like this?
People without the vaccine are not biohazards. They don't need to be shut away from all civilisation.

We have to look at people have/were walking around prior to this vaccine, going about their lives, keyworkers interacting with the public and it didn't have a catastrophic outcome. The vaccine message was about protecting the vulnerable, with the government saying the virus was not a risk for most of the population and is clearly an influencing factor when people are questioning why they personally need the vaccine.

Why now, genuinely, do people feel this much hatred for one another. People are falling out with family, friends, colleagues. I find it all so depressing.

I don't think people are afraid of dying of Covid, though. But the virus is more of a risk to the general population than the government originally told us, because no one knew that so many people would suffer from long Covid: (I'm one of those people.)

Obviously, the majority of people will have only mild symptoms or be asymptomatic. But there's no way of knowing who is at risk of long Covid and a lot of people who develop it weren't vulnerable, but were young and fit.

Once all those who want the vaccine have had the double jab, I suspect their anxiety will lessen and they'll cease to be bothered about whether you've had the vaccine or not.

So that they do not endanger those who cannot have the vaccine

This is also a factor. But the vast majority of the population in this country are coming forward for the vaccine, so it should be enough to create herd immunity.

In any case, it's been made clear that the virus is here to stay, so there will continue to be a small number of deaths. As there is from flu every winter.

Neron
I don’t think it is anything to do with hatred it’s common sense.
In this scenario with the vaccination programme you are genuinely part of the problem or part of the solution.
Herd immunity is the only way out of the pandemic there are only two ways to get there.
Mass Vaccination or mass spread. One scenario involves getting vaccinated the other involves vast number of deaths, Covid mutations and long Covid.
As more and more people get vaccinated those who choose not to be vaccinated are going to become the only people who can host, spread and mutate the virus.
It makes sense that those people who have chosen not to be vaccinated would then become a big risk to those people who medically cannot have the vaccination. This is not hatred it is recognition of a medical fact.
To say you can exercise your right for body autonomy and not have the vaccine but then attend crowded events use public transport etc which means that you exercising your rights means my very young ECV child who cannot have the vaccine will have to shield almost permanently because of your choice. Why should your rights when you have no medical condition that precludes you being able to have the vaccine supersede his rights.
It feels like people want to say it’s my choice, don’t make me feel bad about it, don’t acknowledge it makes me a higher medical risk, don’t suggest that I might have to continue to social distance/ wear a mask long after vaccinated people can stop. Just let me rely on all of you having the vaccine but don’t then dare suggest I shouldn’t be able to access crowded places, and live like everyone else who has taken the risk in having the vaccination.

In this scenario with the vaccination programme you are genuinely part of the problem or part of the solution.
Herd immunity is the only way out of the pandemic there are only two ways to get there.
The government has locked us up for 18 months and people who don't want the vaccine are the problem?

It is way beyond 'Common sense'. A peruse of this board at other threads, will show this. There is plenty of hatred, vitriol and derogatory terms to be observed.

Is it true that ONLY people without the c19 vaccine (for whatever reason) can host, spread or mutate the virus? Happy to be educated on that, if it is the case. So people with the vaccine are 'safe' with nothing to fear, until there is a mutation? Even then, how do we know any mutations will be deadly?

Regarding deaths - data shows these are going down? Are we expecting there to be a sudden surge of people dropping dead?

Isn't it also ironic, that both parties appear to want the other to do as they wish.

@Kittenbittenmitten

Andrew Wakefield was never anti vax. He advocated single vaccines instead of the MMR which some parents decided to go for.

Im guessing hes antivax now as he makes money from jumping on the anti vax bandwagon , he had 30%shares in a single meseals jab. He is responsible for mesals coming back into circulation, evil man

@CaraherEIL

Neron I don’t think it is anything to do with hatred it’s common sense. In this scenario with the vaccination programme you are genuinely part of the problem or part of the solution. Herd immunity is the only way out of the pandemic there are only two ways to get there. Mass Vaccination or mass spread. One scenario involves getting vaccinated the other involves vast number of deaths, Covid mutations and long Covid. As more and more people get vaccinated those who choose not to be vaccinated are going to become the only people who can host, spread and mutate the virus. It makes sense that those people who have chosen not to be vaccinated would then become a big risk to those people who medically cannot have the vaccination. This is not hatred it is recognition of a medical fact. To say you can exercise your right for body autonomy and not have the vaccine but then attend crowded events use public transport etc which means that you exercising your rights means my very young ECV child who cannot have the vaccine will have to shield almost permanently because of your choice. Why should your rights when you have no medical condition that precludes you being able to have the vaccine supersede his rights. It feels like people want to say it’s my choice, don’t make me feel bad about it, don’t acknowledge it makes me a higher medical risk, don’t suggest that I might have to continue to social distance/ wear a mask long after vaccinated people can stop. Just let me rely on all of you having the vaccine but don’t then dare suggest I shouldn’t be able to access crowded places, and live like everyone else who has taken the risk in having the vaccination.

This 100% ultimately actions have consequences, by not being vaccinated through choice not unablr due to medical has consequences weather u acknowledge them or not.

I'm guessing hes antivax now as he makes money from jumping on the anti vax bandwagon , he had 30%shares in a single meseals jab. He is responsible for mesals coming back into circulation, evil man
No more evil than the pharmaceutical companies worried about the sales of MMR vaccine in the UK.

@Neron

It is way beyond 'Common sense'. A peruse of this board at other threads, will show this. There is plenty of hatred, vitriol and derogatory terms to be observed.

Is it true that ONLY people without the c19 vaccine (for whatever reason) can host, spread or mutate the virus? Happy to be educated on that, if it is the case. So people with the vaccine are 'safe' with nothing to fear, until there is a mutation? Even then, how do we know any mutations will be deadly?

Regarding deaths - data shows these are going down? Are we expecting there to be a sudden surge of people dropping dead?

Isn't it also ironic, that both parties appear to want the other to do as they wish.

Well surely people who are anti vax in general or just covid vaccine surely dont want everyone else to do same as them as then we would be in bigger mess. Its the selfishness that gets me . I would love to hear from people not getting vaccine if they truely not want everyone else to get it.

@Kittenbittenmitten

I'm guessing hes antivax now as he makes money from jumping on the anti vax bandwagon , he had 30%shares in a single meseals jab. He is responsible for mesals coming back into circulation, evil man No more evil than the pharmaceutical companies worried about the sales of MMR vaccine in the UK.

He can be equally evil as a lot of people doesn't take it away 🤦🏼‍♀️

If a vaccine provides 80% protection against serious illness then you have a 20% chance when vaccinated of falling seriously ill IF you catch it

No, this is not the case.
It doesn't mean there are 20% of people who are complete devoid of protection, despite having been vaccinate (and even if it did, it doesn't mean 100% of those would fall seriously ill).

It means the vaccine is 80% effective across the population, which could just as easily mean some folks are 70% protected, and others are 90%, but overall the net effectiveness is 80%.

The efficacy of a vaccine is how well it performs in terms of creating antibodies in readiness for an infection. The effectiveness of a vaccine is how well the vaccine actually performs in the real world. So, a vaccine mine have very good efficacy, because it performs very well at creating the antibodies it's supposed to, but it might have poor effectiveness, because the virus mutated and the antibodies didn't work as well as hoped.

The vaccines don’t completely stop spread. If they did then I might understand your vitriol.

I don’t think we know enough about safety. Delighted you have taken your vax. Delighted you are happy.

We aren’t vaccinating children and vaccines don’t stop spread or mutants so all the salivating above is meaningless.

Just a point here, about the selfishness of those choosing not to have a vaccination...

Many of us will have gladly accepted a vaccine that in all probability, would have served better to the more needy in a foreign country. You could make a fair argument that that was selfish too.

I am 100% pro vaccine, but there's a certain level of hypocrisy in accusing non-vaccined people of being selfish. I know that my vaccine would probably have helped an older person in a foreign country better than it would help me.

@VerticalHorizon

Just a point here, about the selfishness of those choosing not to have a vaccination...

Many of us will have gladly accepted a vaccine that in all probability, would have served better to the more needy in a foreign country. You could make a fair argument that that was selfish too.

I am 100% pro vaccine, but there's a certain level of hypocrisy in accusing non-vaccined people of being selfish. I know that my vaccine would probably have helped an older person in a foreign country better than it would help me.

If u have that way of thinking , why do u live in house/flat etc, have running water, heating, car , electricity etc because surely other people in other counties might not have them things why r u not giving all ur money to charity. By u not having vaccine doesnt automatically give it to some other needy er person. It doesnt work like that. Seems ridiculous, surely if u care about other poorer countries spend ur time campaigning for richer countries to give them vaccines not refuse its q cop out

If u have that way of thinking , why do u live in house/flat etc, have running water, heating, car , electricity etc because surely other people in other counties might not have them things why r u not giving all ur money to charity. By u not having vaccine doesnt automatically give it to some other needy er person. It doesnt work like that. Seems ridiculous, surely if u care about other poorer countries spend ur time campaigning for richer countries to give them vaccines not refuse its q cop out

Because I'm selfish. I'm not pretending otherwise. I gladly took a vaccine that statistically would have been better suited going to someone else.

I am saying to others, that accusing non-vacciners of being selfish is also a little hypocritical.

Do I think they should have a vaccine? Absolutely - for the greater good of everybody, but the 'selfish' accusation is something I disagree with.

Vertical
Yes you are right and if you could have sent your vaccine to a more vulnerable person you probably would have, but to avoid any available vaccine in any country in the world in the middle of a worldwide pandemic seems foolish.
By saying you might want to choose to send your vaccine to a more needy person means that you recognise how truly valuable it is.
If you can’t make a change there then help make the change here.
I think when the virus is still being transmitted worldwide it is not selfish to try and work towards eliminating it in any one country. It has got to be a good thing wherever it is happening.

We are starting to vaccinate teenagers. I think it’s not salivating it’s just science. If a mutation is allowed time to develop that is fast spreading and vaccine resistant we could be forced back into another 18 months of lockdowns.
People say it can’t go on, we can’t live like this, but it can and it will until herd immunity is reached either through mass infection or mass vaccination.

Vertical I don’t think people think it’s selfish to not have the vaccine I think people think it’s selfish to not have the vaccine and then expect to live your life as if you have.

I would love to hear from people not getting vaccine if they truely not want everyone else to get it
Why? Genuine question

@Neron

I would love to hear from people not getting vaccine if they truely not want everyone else to get it Why? Genuine question

Because i think it explores the selfishness angle, if they want others to get it, it means it cant be that bad as they concisely ok with others having it. And they accept on a level that vaccine is the way out of this pandemic, they r just choosing not to he part of the solution which in my eyes is selfish.

Further lockdowns
Deadly mutations
Mass infections
Mass deaths
The virus getting out of control

I've seen a lot posted on the above, coming across in a way that it is a certainty, almost guaranteed if everyone able doesn't take the vaccine.

Is it the truth? Predictions? Scientific evidence? People's thoughts/opinions/projections?

Kitten They locked us up because the population had no natural immunity and there was no vaccination and early on no effective treatment. The lockdowns stopped hospitals becoming overwhelmed and bought us time. I thought most people realised that a vaccine was the great hope to get us out of ongoing lockdowns and restrictions.
How otherwise did you envisage the pandemic coming to a end?
That is a genuine question?
How do all the anti vaxxers who presumably would’nt selfishly expect other people to risk getting vaccinated envisage the pandemic coming to an end? How will it end in an unvaccinated world?

I never see it ending. I see vaccines for the vulnerable and those who want them and the rest of us get it and move on

I didn’t sign up to this. I didn’t sign up to injecting my kids with new technologically that we have zero long term data on to protect vaccinated people

No one signed up for this.