To wonder about almonds? And other vegan food/drink

[okeydokeywokeyblokey]

I just read the thread about farmers sending livestock to slaughter, was fascinating.

I've become vegetarian over the last few years and only ate meat if at someone else's house and there were no options (social vegetarian), however since covid have not done that either, so now am fully veggie. I didn't watch seaspiracy, but just hearing about it was enough to put me off eating fish.

I buy eggs from a local lady and occasionally eat cheese and have replaced milk with oat or almond milk. Haven't any health issues and take supplement vit d3.

I don't think the meat industry is going away, but hopefully more vegetarian food will replace more meat dishes over time to reduce demand and maybe somehow legislate to reduce factory farming.

Anyhoo, my question is what are the problems with almond, oat and other milks? What are good alternatives? I avoid palm oil, and anything with corn syrup (not easy in usa)

I read that it takes 5x as much water to get an ounce of beef than an ounce of almonds. I would love to hear people on the subject to get ideas and to learn something. I changed from almond to oat milk because they said it consumes less water, but on that thread someone said oatly was terrible for the environment.

I think reading articles are time consuming and you get a blinkered view whereas you get a wide range of views on here, many eye opening, so while it is possible to Google answers id rather hear your opinions.

So what are good and bad veggie foods?

Almonds are one of the products that are responsible for the decline of bees.

I use oat milk because of this:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/07/honeybees-deaths-almonds-hives-aoe

All vegan milks are better for the environment than cow’s milk. Almond milk is the least environmentally friendly because it takes a lot of water and it harmful to native bee species. Oatly is environmentally ok but I think the company has suspect links. Basically nothing is perfect, but dairy is the worst.

Avocado farming is very water intensive.

Carbon footprint and water usage graphs.

And Mexican avocado farming supports criminal activity and cartels apparently. 🤷‍♀️

I think oat milk is generally reckoned to be the best environmentally. "Almond milk" and quite a few others and in fact mainly soya, which is probably better than cows milk in many ways but usually imported long distances and sometimes grown in deforested areas

Oat milk is nice too - especially on breakfast cereal

The trouble is, you’re never going to be able to live a 100% ethically perfect life. So you need to decide to your own boundaries yourself.

You can make your own oat milk. minimalistbaker.com/make-oat-milk/

I drink soya milk made from local soya beans. It is delicious and definitely more nutritious than almond and oat milk. It's also lower in carbohydrates.

Oat milk in our house.

Well done for making changes you are happy with. I agree with Pumper, set your own boundaries because this is a subject absolutely everyone will have an opinion on and a fair few people will undermine your choices, no matter what you do.
Can I make a request though, if you are going to eat meat on occasion could you describe yourself as a reducaterian not a vegetarian. People calling themselves veggie who eat meat cause confusion for vegetarians, as people who witness one 'vegetarian' eating chicken then force it on the next 'vegetarian' and accuse us of being fussy or inconsistent.
My advice is oat milk is the nicest and best environmental wise; get good Tupperware for taking your own good to parties and buy some good cookbooks. Nutritional yeast is a good source of b12 but only when added to lower temperature food. Join a Facebook page to find out about non meaty snacks.

Good luck. Hope you survive this thread 😉

I'm not vegetarian but I am gradually cutting down on foods that are bad for the environment.

I started with beef a few years ago, a couple of years ago I removed cow's milk, then lamb, then prawns. Not sure what to do next.

But anyway I drink quite a range of non-dairy milk. I take the view that any of them are better for the environment than cow's milk so you shouldn't be made to feel guilty for drinking almond or soya. Most soya is grown for cattle feed not dairy substitutes anyway.

I'm interested to hear people's views on this subject tbh, it might give me some ideas.

@AOwlAOwlAOwl mother in law cut out everything but cheese, eggs and fish and I'd argue that that's the healthiest/most ethical way to go if you are not going the whole hog.
Cutting out chicken would be my next move if I were you. Of you're a lazy cook and not too worried about eating processed things, the chicken substitutes are very good.
Personally I use cauldron marinated tofu as a substitute for a lot of things. It's a nice halfway house if you don't want to cook from scratch.
If you do want to use tofu from scratch- get a tofu press, cut into pieces and lightly dust with flour and spices of choice. Fry for five minutes then cook in the oven for twenty five.
Tofu is awful if you cook it any other way. Fact.

Oh and it's firm tofu you want- soft tofu is only good for sauces etc. It's not solid enough to work well as a meat substitute.

Cows tend to wee, so the water they consume makes it back into the ground. It’s not lost. That is a red herring argument.

@mouseythevampireslayer OP said she is now fully vegetarian.

@AOwlAOwlAOwl

I'm not vegetarian but I am gradually cutting down on foods that are bad for the environment.

I started with beef a few years ago, a couple of years ago I removed cow's milk, then lamb, then prawns. Not sure what to do next.

But anyway I drink quite a range of non-dairy milk. I take the view that any of them are better for the environment than cow's milk so you shouldn't be made to feel guilty for drinking almond or soya. Most soya is grown for cattle feed not dairy substitutes anyway.

I'm interested to hear people's views on this subject tbh, it might give me some ideas.

I’d say eat what’s in season if you’re not already. And try to reduce the air miles of your food. We grow a lot of our own but it’s a pain in the arse because it’s 1) extortionate 2) a huge amount of work and 3) unreliable - the weather in Scotland this year has been rubbish and everything is late. So I wouldn’t recommend that for everyone unless you can be arsed with all of the above.

And also reduce your food waste as much as possible, even if it means eating say, lentil pasta with a side of rice.

I'd also say op, whilst making the changes for environment and health reasons can be positive, reducing and eating local can also have a positive effect.
The only reason to go veg imo is for the animals. Everything else is just a happy bonus.

Yes, I know what the op said. You'd be surprised how many new vegetarians enjoy the social fuss of the label whilst eating bacon butties occasionally.
If op isn't eating meat anymore they obviously just ignore my advice.

And I'm also including rennet and gelatine in that. They're not vegetarian.

Interesting about the bees, poor things, ill stick to oat milk and try cut down in almonds in other foods.

Surely water used to produce nuts goes back into the system too? It doesn't all get absby the nut does it? 1.1l per nut?
I don't intend to eat meat or fish again, so am now for all intents and purposes veggie. It just started off less rigid.

Avocados are lovely but I can go without. We used to have our own trees in Southern Africa.

I don't know the ins and outs of things but I cannot see how a Mexican avocado that needs loads of water before being flown over here can be better than local seasonal food. Including grass fed beef.

I have really cut down on cheese, but am not there yet where I can totally give it up. I might just keep it limited as I am always buying vegan cheeses and trying them out but haven't found a great one yet. Going to 10% of my usual intake will eventually make a little difference hopefully

@flowerycurtain

I don't know the ins and outs of things but I cannot see how a Mexican avocado that needs loads of water before being flown over here can be better than local seasonal food. Including grass fed beef.

The problem is the vast majority of people are not eating local grass fed beef. People are eating cheap, over-farmed meat at a rate we’ve never seen before in human history. Also it’s not all or nothing - the people who are eating local, grass-fed beef are also eating the flown-in water-guzzling avocados and almonds.

We don’t need everyone living totally perfectly ethical lives, we need everyone doing their bit. Reducing meat, eating locally where possible and reducing waste.