To wonder about almonds? And other vegan food/drink

[okeydokeywokeyblokey]

I just read the thread about farmers sending livestock to slaughter, was fascinating.

I've become vegetarian over the last few years and only ate meat if at someone else's house and there were no options (social vegetarian), however since covid have not done that either, so now am fully veggie. I didn't watch seaspiracy, but just hearing about it was enough to put me off eating fish.

I buy eggs from a local lady and occasionally eat cheese and have replaced milk with oat or almond milk. Haven't any health issues and take supplement vit d3.

I don't think the meat industry is going away, but hopefully more vegetarian food will replace more meat dishes over time to reduce demand and maybe somehow legislate to reduce factory farming.

Anyhoo, my question is what are the problems with almond, oat and other milks? What are good alternatives? I avoid palm oil, and anything with corn syrup (not easy in usa)

I read that it takes 5x as much water to get an ounce of beef than an ounce of almonds. I would love to hear people on the subject to get ideas and to learn something. I changed from almond to oat milk because they said it consumes less water, but on that thread someone said oatly was terrible for the environment.

I think reading articles are time consuming and you get a blinkered view whereas you get a wide range of views on here, many eye opening, so while it is possible to Google answers id rather hear your opinions.

So what are good and bad veggie foods?

Apparently plants scream too - when you pull them out of the ground.....

Humans are omnivores and Need to eat a range of food from each food group to attain maximum. health.
Just eat organic meat/milk and non-processed food and you’ll be fine. If you’re not sure - read the labels.

A carrot won't know I'm chopping it in half,as it has no central nervous system. An animal feels pain and fear. Not comparable.

@underneaththeash

Apparently plants scream too - when you pull them out of the ground.....

Humans are omnivores and Need to eat a range of food from each food group to attain maximum. health.
Just eat organic meat/milk and non-processed food and you’ll be fine. If you’re not sure - read the labels.

The planet can’t sustain the level of meat we’re currently consuming. You can pretend that’s not true if you like but it doesn’t change anything.

@kennelmaid

I can't understand how vegans always get blamed for the air miles related to the import of of avocados. It's a fruit, not a speciality vegan food!

It is also not compulsory to eat avocados as a vegan. I'm a vegan and I think avocados are rank (except in sushi). I also don't eat quinoa or drink almond milk which seems to blow some peoples minds 😂.

I am not quite ready to give up coffee or chocolate yet though...

@underneaththeash

Apparently plants scream too - when you pull them out of the ground.....

Humans are omnivores and Need to eat a range of food from each food group to attain maximum. health.
Just eat organic meat/milk and non-processed food and you’ll be fine. If you’re not sure - read the labels.

I agree we need to eat a range of foods from all the food groups but meat and eggs aren't food groups. Dairy is no longer classed as a food group either so I am interested to know what food groups you think vegans don't eat.

I do think that if you're hearing plants scream that you may need to visit the doctor to get your meds adjusted.

The planet can’t sustain the level of meat we’re currently consuming. You can pretend that’s not true if you like but it doesn’t change anything

The truth is probably more like the planet can't sustain amount of people living on it

I think when it comes to food choices, local, seasonal and not processed beyond recognition is best for the environment and your body.

Ah I see the plant's rights advocates have arrived.
Anyone fancy playing vegan bingo?
I have a Guinness so we can make it a drinking game.
*Yes Guinness is vegan.

A key misunderstanding by many is that local is best due to air miles. The vast majority of emissions generated by a food are at the production, not the transport stage. So bananas are still better environmentally than beef from local cows.

ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local

There is no way to be perfect.

Almond milk is particularly imperfect, so I don't drink it - I have hemp milk.

If you want a really good overview, subscribe to Ethical Consumer, it's not expensive and it's really informative.

Another myth that’s already been mentioned is that human soya foods are destroying the rainforest- they’re not. The soya used in soya milk comes from Europe. The soya grown in the Amazon is predominantly used as animal feed- the U.K. feeds animals, predominantly chickens, pigs and dairy cows, so much soya that if it was grown here rather than abroad it would need an area the size of Yorkshire.

Do be aware that soya products are a big NO for anyone who has had cancer with a hormonal link.
My consultant is adamant that I should not touch soya in any form, ever.

@kikisparks

Another myth that’s already been mentioned is that human soya foods are destroying the rainforest- they’re not. The soya used in soya milk comes from Europe. The soya grown in the Amazon is predominantly used as animal feed- the U.K. feeds animals, predominantly chickens, pigs and dairy cows, so much soya that if it was grown here rather than abroad it would need an area the size of Yorkshire.

I knew that Alpro use soy beans from Europe but never knew it was the same for all soya milk. Interesting.

Anyhoo, my question is what are the problems with almond, oat and other milks?
The main problem is that they taste nothing like milk.

@Ylvamoon

The planet can’t sustain the level of meat we’re currently consuming. You can pretend that’s not true if you like but it doesn’t change anything

The truth is probably more like the planet can't sustain amount of people living on it

I think when it comes to food choices, local, seasonal and not processed beyond recognition is best for the environment and your body.

No, it isn’t. Nobody needs meat twice a day every day.

Grass fed animals aren’t the answer either:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.carbonbrief.org/grass-fed-beef-will-not-help-tackle-climate-change/amp

“Despite making only a marginal contribution to global protein intake, grazed beef accounts for between a quarter and a third of all greenhouse emissions from ruminant livestock.”

Basically the data shows that if you eat a plant based diet it is highly likely to be environmentally better than any diet that involves animal products, even if those animal products came from the farm next door and from animals who were free to graze. There are a few plant based products that are big offenders in respect of emissions like chocolate and coffee, but these should hopefully not be consumed in high quantities (even multiple cups of coffee are mostly water) and very few non vegans totally exclude these either. It is of course very possible to have a plant based diet without chocolate or coffee if you wanted to further reduce your environmental impact.

Almonds (and avocados) are grown intensively in water scarce areas and require lots of water, water that is diverted from communities, from rivers etc. Almonds may use less water in production than dairy milk but the region they are grown in has far less rainfall so it's not a fair comparison. The local dairy to me is organic, employs people with learning difficulties to train them, cows graze on grass for most of the year only being moved indoors in times of flood plus supplemented grass in winter using silage made on the farm. Food miles are essentially zero because I pass them and collect milk on my way home from work - almond milk really is harmful compared to this. (Oat milk however is far more environmentally sound, grown in U.K., etc but I just don't like the taste of watered down porridge)

@flowerycurtain s add leats been my take. For dinner I have lamb raised in the Welsh mountains 30 miles away, my butcher had a map and can point to which farm - land unsuitable to arable crops but is also a wind farm, the sheep trim the grass!

I'm really struggling to find a milk substitute I like. I don't like cow's milk but can tolerate it on my cereal and in coffee. I don't mind almond milk in coffee but can't stand it in tea. I'm not veggie and never intend to be but I do want to (and try to) eat more environmentally consciously so I try not to use almond milk and I try to eat seasonally. Cows are really bad for the environment though...

@motogogo

Almonds (and avocados) are grown intensively in water scarce areas and require lots of water, water that is diverted from communities, from rivers etc. Almonds may use less water in production than dairy milk but the region they are grown in has far less rainfall so it's not a fair comparison. The local dairy to me is organic, employs people with learning difficulties to train them, cows graze on grass for most of the year only being moved indoors in times of flood plus supplemented grass in winter using silage made on the farm. Food miles are essentially zero because I pass them and collect milk on my way home from work - almond milk really is harmful compared to this. (Oat milk however is far more environmentally sound, grown in U.K., etc but I just don't like the taste of watered down porridge)

How the cows are treated is not really relevant. At the end of the day they are still going to be impregnated and have their baby taken away from them just so we can drink their milk. And it is still breast milk from another species which is just 🤮 to me.

@ToadsThePeanutButterSnob sorry I have heard it to be the case about all soya milks but admittedly have been unable to verify it in respect of supermarket own brands. All the brands I have checked, alpro, plenish, rude health, provamel, source from Europe so it may be safest to go with a name brand. This doesn’t mean supermarket own brands use soya from the Amazon but rather that they simply don’t say where most of their raw materials come from, they could still very well use European soya.

Oo this is really interesting. DD is CMPA and we are just looking at transitioning her from amino acid formula on to a nut milk. We were thinking coconut as there is coconut oil in her current formula, but she could try any, what would be the most environmentally friendly one to try? 😊

Do be aware that soya products are a big NO for anyone who has had cancer with a hormonal link
My consultant is adamant that I should not touch soya in any form, ever
Yes, due to the natural phytoestrogens.
It’s used in a lot of natural menopause supplements and thought to be one of the reasons Japanese women (who traditionally eat a lot of soya) often cope much better with menopause.

@weesleekitcowrantimrousbeastie the NFU are biased and are going to pick and choose the stats to suit them. But I’m not even certain they have correctly copied from the articles they reference for example they say “Emissions from UK livestock are estimated to be around 5% of the country’s total GHG emissions” however the footnote leads to www.gov.uk/government/statistics/final-uk-greenhouse-gas-emissions-national-statistics-1990-2017

Which says emissions from agriculture are 10% of the country’s GHG emissions and does not appear to specify any statistic in respect of animals used as livestock. Also it points out that a reason for reduced emissions in this sector is that there are less animals, a factor conveniently omitted from the NFU paper.

For stats I go to the source and the non-biased peer reviewed articles I have read based on empirical data confirm repeatedly that a plant based diet involves the lowest emissions (and also better land use and water use).