To wonder about almonds? And other vegan food/drink

[okeydokeywokeyblokey]

I just read the thread about farmers sending livestock to slaughter, was fascinating.

I've become vegetarian over the last few years and only ate meat if at someone else's house and there were no options (social vegetarian), however since covid have not done that either, so now am fully veggie. I didn't watch seaspiracy, but just hearing about it was enough to put me off eating fish.

I buy eggs from a local lady and occasionally eat cheese and have replaced milk with oat or almond milk. Haven't any health issues and take supplement vit d3.

I don't think the meat industry is going away, but hopefully more vegetarian food will replace more meat dishes over time to reduce demand and maybe somehow legislate to reduce factory farming.

Anyhoo, my question is what are the problems with almond, oat and other milks? What are good alternatives? I avoid palm oil, and anything with corn syrup (not easy in usa)

I read that it takes 5x as much water to get an ounce of beef than an ounce of almonds. I would love to hear people on the subject to get ideas and to learn something. I changed from almond to oat milk because they said it consumes less water, but on that thread someone said oatly was terrible for the environment.

I think reading articles are time consuming and you get a blinkered view whereas you get a wide range of views on here, many eye opening, so while it is possible to Google answers id rather hear your opinions.

So what are good and bad veggie foods?

@Mcginn oat milk is best environmentally but it’s worth thinking about soya milk for the higher protein content (if she is not also allergic to that), there is information on plant based milks in the vegan recommendations for under 5s by the First Steps Nutrition Trust www.firststepsnutrition.org/eating-well-early-years

You should not give under 5s rice milk and I wouldn’t pick almond milk as it lacks calories.

Almonds aren’t vegan food.

There is no such thing as vegan food

It’s either fruit, veg or food to look like animal products

[quote kikisparks]@Mcginn oat milk is best environmentally but it’s worth thinking about soya milk for the higher protein content (if she is not also allergic to that), there is information on plant based milks in the vegan recommendations for under 5s by the First Steps Nutrition Trust www.firststepsnutrition.org/eating-well-early-years

You should not give under 5s rice milk and I wouldn’t pick almond milk as it lacks calories.[/quote]
Actually no.

Cows milk is the best of the environment and human health

@BettyBurntBuns my DD can’t have cows milk though as it makes her poorly, hence looking for the alternative 😊

@kikisparks thanks for the info, we spoke with the dietician recently who was very much of the opinion do what you like… not overly helpful. The link you sent is great, thank you

Of she can’t have dairy proteins def don’t give her soya and make sure she has A calcium supplement

@tornadosequins

So you made your decision about not eating fish based on not even watching a documentary that may or may not been accurate - merely hearing people's opinions on it - but milk alternatives you're going to continue with despite having actually gathered proper, credible information on the harms? As opposed to acting based purely on film reviews for one film?!

That makes no sense. You're making decisions based on random opinions that sit right with you, without interrogating whether they're remotely reliable sources of information.

Sure, posting here and canvassing opinions is easier than locating a credible source to read but that's because it's totally unreliable! People post bullshit on here all day long.

I'm really squeamish and can't watch creatures being killed so won't watch it, but I have long heard of the harms of overfishing. I don't like shellfish or oysters, so no hardship to give up. I loved most fish, but don't want to personally contribute to the industry so happy to give it up.

My husband still eats meat when out but eats plant based at home and does not stint on cows milk and cheese. My kids both occasionally eat meat but weeks can go by before they want it especially. We also have a meat eating dog (every day obs).

We always try to buy ethically, but in usa the labeling and standards mean almost nothing in comparison with the uk which is why I slowly wanted to withdraw from the meat/poultry industry.

and now the fishing industry too. I have found loads of delicious things to eat and cook and my diet is way more adventurous now.

@kikisparks

Grass fed animals aren’t the answer either:

Despite making only a marginal contribution to global protein intake, grazed beef accounts for between a quarter and a third of all greenhouse emissions from ruminant livestock

It's just not as simple as that. Methane will stay in the atmosphere for approximately 12 years.
While CO2 will be there for around 100 years...
Reducing food miles should definitely be at the centre of our thinking.

The Guardian ran an article about the Environmental Impact of plant milks last year.

You have to look at the packaging too. Lots of vegan products, including the milks come in packaging that can't be recycled and end up in landfill. Glass bottles are the best in terms of end of life reuse and recycling although it is more energy intensive to produce and transport, plastic milk bottles are easily recyclable but the tetra paks of the nut milks go straight to landfill.

Its similar with he Who gives a crap toilet paper, you save on losing the outer plastic cover but it is imported from China and the carbon emissions are huge compared to run of the mill toilet roll.

A very interesting thread, thank you. Is Fair Trade coffee and bananas OK? Aren't there laws about overfishing. I eat fish so rarely and as it's so good for health I'd be slow to give it up. Buy free range or organic meat here and stretch it very much so consumption is low-one tray read and white meat for family of 4 per week/10 days. My DN was vegetarian, and eating extremely well, for 6m but he got bloods done and his iron and haemoglobin levels were on the floor, gp said it was a huge no nó for adolescents.. He was eating eggs, pulses, dairy daily at the time. Didn't realise almonds were quite so bad.

There are also sometimes implications of our food choices for the dietary diversity of the poorer communities where foods products are produced. Avocados and quinoa are two i have heard about. Both have become a lot more popular in western countries so their prices go up, which means the local communities which would usually rely on them as a nutritious part of their diet can no longer afford to buy them, they all get shipped overseas, and the locals substitute in less nutritious alternatives. This might not sound like a big deal when we have access to such a huge array of foods, but many communities don't have this access and have high rates of malnutrition as it is.
Trying to eat ethically and environmentally friendly is a total minefield. Im not vegetarian, just trying to reduce meat where i can and eat as locally as possible. I also avoid processed foods.

An extensive study was released earlier this year (I can't link but by Crippa et Al) showing the entire GHG emissions and environmental impact from Farm to Fork and Disposal. Generally the takeaway was cutting down on meat was important, if buying in season buy locally and if buying out of season buy ship transported and Air freighted which is the worse form of transport and don't waste food as that releases more GHG then anything else.

UK apples kept in an industrial chiller and purchased out of season released more GHG then eating imported (by boat) apples from New Zealand. Which I never really would have thought of before

You can make tigernut milk at home with fantastic results.

Also, if you want to give up cheese. My advice is to go cold turkey for a month before trying out vegan alternatives.

Oat milk is the best! Out of five of us in this family, three of us drink oat milk. Aldi actually do their own which is the cheapest I've found, 70-80p I think.
Makes the best hot chocolate.

Very interesting thread. Can someone explain to me what's wrong with soya milk? I've RTWT but couldn't see anywhere.

Also DH makes the point that if people don't drink (fair trade) coffee, it deprives some poor countries of a massive source of income... which seems like a reasonable point to me.

The farming thread got full I believe and couldn't see another, for anyone that is interested there was a documentary about abattoirs quite a long time ago, it was very eye opening. It's on You Tube, it's called Slaughterhouse The Task Of Blood.

@TheVolturi

Oat milk is the best! Out of five of us in this family, three of us drink oat milk. Aldi actually do their own which is the cheapest I've found, 70-80p I think. Makes the best hot chocolate.

The best hot chocolate (and indeed porridge) is made from half oat milk and half full fat cow's milk. Which I realise is therefore not vegan and not contributing to the discussion...but I like it!

DH just has oat milk for health reasons and cow's milk makes him gag now.

@Marmaladegin

Very interesting thread. Can someone explain to me what's wrong with soya milk? I've RTWT but couldn't see anywhere.

Also DH makes the point that if people don't drink (fair trade) coffee, it deprives some poor countries of a massive source of income... which seems like a reasonable point to me.

European produced soy isn't too bad, but soy from elsewhere is often produced in deforested areas, has a large carbon footprint and results in the other crops being side-lined, increasing prices for locals. Lots of soy is produced for animal feed though.

I can't stand oatmilk. Tastes slimy to me and oddly sweet. Awful in tea and gives everything else a weird after-taste. I was desperate to like it! I really want to ditch animal milk.

www.discountcoffee.co.uk/products/vegan-coffee-creamer-750g?_pos=1&_sid=9648ffccd&_ss=r

For coffee or hot chocolate
I use it in baking too.

@TentTalk

I can't stand oatmilk. Tastes slimy to me and oddly sweet. Awful in tea and gives everything else a weird after-taste. I was desperate to like it! I really want to ditch animal milk.

I do agree it's not great in tea. Amazing in coffee though. You might want to try different brands of it though op, because Asda were doing one a while back that was absolutely awful. If we'd tried that before any others I think we would have written oat milk off!

@Ylvamoon that factor is taken into account in the studies but “ Despite methane’s short residence time, the fact that it has a much higher warming potential than CO2 and that its atmospheric volumes are continuously replenished make effective methane management a potentially important element in countries’ climate change mitigation strategies.”
unece.org/challenge

The science shows that reducing Food miles is not the answer. There’s the article I linked to earlier and: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181023110627.htm

“A new study provides a more comprehensive accounting of the greenhouse gas emissions from EU diets. It shows that meat and dairy products are responsible for the lion's share of greenhouse emissions from the EU diet.”

“"People tend to think that consuming locally will be the solution to climate change, but it turns out that the type of product we eat is much more important for the overall impact," says IIASA researcher Hugo Valin, a study coauthor and Sandström's YSSP advisor. "Europeans are culturally attached to meat and dairy product consumption.”

@BettyBurntBuns sources to back up that opinion? As all of the research suggests cows milk is worse for the environment. Far worse than oat milk.