Landlord wants full notice even though selling property.

[gnomeathome]

Our landlord is selling the house we live in, he has given us until 31st August to move out. We have seen countless properties, put offers in etc but most are listed as 'available immediately' . We have lost out on 5 properties so far because we can't move immediately as we have a months notice to give. I have asked him if we can move within 2 weeks because of this issue and he said no, he wants the full months notice (or we would have to pay the difference in rent which we cannot afford to do).
We have had to have potential buyers looking at the house whilst we are still here and the landlord had the gall to say that we were making the house look small by being there whilst buyers and agents were coming around (we are a family). So could we 'pop out' during all viewings!

AIBU to think that not letting us leave early is just plain greedy? At this rate we wont find anywhere to move to that lines up perfectly to the eng of August. Do we legally have to give a months notice if they are the ones who have given us notice?

@DrinkFeckArseGirls

I said YABU because he’s well within his rights to stick to the one month’s notice. It’s short anyway, I have two months. However it seems you say he hasn’t hive you any notice? Give him notice, stop accommodating viewings and accept a few days of over lap between the tenancies. I’ve always found it helpful as could move and clean over a couple of days and not everything in one day.

And the tenant is well within their rights to demand a validly served section 21 notice and then move out when the courts tell her to (maybe 5 or 8 months plus after the notice was served.)

I was under the impression that landlords had the right to access a property if they have 24 hours notice.

No they don't. They can ask permission for access and must give 24 hours notice for routine maintenance, but the tenant can say no. If the tenant says no you have to evict or get a court order for access. They can access in an emergency (eg gas leak or flood) without permission.

@MrsJuliaGulia

I was under the impression that landlords had the right to access a property if they have 24 hours notice. I’ve always given my tenants 24 hours notice when I wish to enter a property. But you certainly don’t have to leave the property when they are doing viewings.

I'd make damn sure that it was a very very untidy property you turned up to - the viewers would certainly have to make their way past the furniture piled up by the front door at least.

@MrsJuliaGulia

I was under the impression that landlords had the right to access a property if they have 24 hours notice. I’ve always given my tenants 24 hours notice when I wish to enter a property. But you certainly don’t have to leave the property when they are doing viewings.

To my knowledge incorrect. Unless it's a genuine emergency or you have other legal authority, you have to give 24 hours notice and the tenant has to consent. And you can't just point to a blanket term in the tenancy agreement, consent is a visit-by-visit thing.

Whether it has to be 'active' consent or whether you can enter if the tenant merely does not object I don't know.

Why are people saying he can't use the deposit for unpaid rent? That is absolutely not the case, if the tenant owes rent, the deposit can be used towards the arrears, you just have to go through the deposit scheme for it. If the OP was to move out after 2 weeks notice instead of a month, without prior agreement with the landlord, he would absolutely be able to make a claim for it through the deposit scheme, and would be almost certain to win that part.

JediGnot did you read my whole post or just the first sentence.

@DrinkFeckArseGirls

JediGnot did you read my whole post or just the first sentence.

I read the whole post.

@KnobJockey

Why are people saying he can't use the deposit for unpaid rent? That is absolutely not the case, if the tenant owes rent, the deposit can be used towards the arrears, you just have to go through the deposit scheme for it. If the OP was to move out after 2 weeks notice instead of a month, without prior agreement with the landlord, he would absolutely be able to make a claim for it through the deposit scheme, and would be almost certain to win that part.

I said specifically that

The deposit is not his money, it is the tenants.

That deposit schemes aren't all that keen on landlords asking only for rent from the deposit, they expect a mutual agreement to be made beforehand. They have been known to be quite terse about it, with both sides.

There is more nuance than yes he can, no he can't.

Read your contract. What does it say about viewing? Some say last 8 weeks, others 6 weeks and some one month. Your LL has every right to sell his house and by law he must give you 2 months notice. Has he done this? If so you must pay up until end of contract you signed.

@caringcarer

Read your contract. What does it say about viewing? Some say last 8 weeks, others 6 weeks and some one month. Your LL has every right to sell his house and by law he must give you 2 months notice. Has he done this? If so you must pay up until end of contract you signed.

Except none of that is correct, as has been explained throughout the thread.

^ what she said it doesn’t matter what the contract says about viewings, it’s an unenforceable clause as it’s unfair.

I know this because I’ve used it myself, solicitors have advised me. Shelter advised me and rental industry professionals advised me.

By all means feel free to check out what I’ve said yourself but I’m stating absolute fact here.

@Maggiesfarm

JedGnot, I got the information from being a tenant, a landlord and my children and nephew being tenants. Three months was written into all contracts but that was negotiable, most people are reasonable. This particular landlord has given adequate notice, that is not in dispute, but appears to want to be sure of one month's rent ; understandable as he/she still has to maintain the property and pay the mortgage until the sale goes through.

Honestly, speaking as an 'accidental' landlord, it can be more trouble than it's worth. I am selling my rental property but the tenants have to be out within four months. I'd be quite happy if they went earlier, I get little or no rent from them anyway and they have huge arrears (I was happy to give them time to catch up). Meanwhile I am paying the mortgage. I will be very glad when I am shot of it.
Bookmark

Your information is wrong. Legally, a tenant only has to give one month notice and a landlord has to give 2 months (in non Covid times). A contract cannot override a tenants statutory rights. If You are a LL, I suggest you find out what your legal obligations are

Thanks Sugarplum. Coincidentally I had a letter from the estate agents today regarding this, they said the tenants had been given four months notice. I am actually quite happy with that as it stands and I will not be letting anywhere again but it's interesting to know.

@CuriousaboutSamphire others in the thread seem to have run with what you said and changed it to 'he can't take your rent out of your deposit'.

@Maggiesfarm

Thanks Sugarplum. Coincidentally I had a letter from the estate agents today regarding this, they said the tenants had been given four months notice. I am actually quite happy with that as it stands and I will not be letting anywhere again but it's interesting to know.

That is in line with the current Covid changes. It won't always be like that. It will return to normal later this year, ish.

The majority of the comments on here are the exact reason that landlords charge so much rent.

Given your landlord hasn't bothered to give notice and has (stupidly) decided to sell the house as a vacant property (without tenants) at a point when they legally can't give you notice (covid) then you do hold all the bargaining power.

Tell your landlord you need flexibility re the notice period and rent payable, and that if they can't do that, you will do your best to find a new property but that you can't guarantee you will find one in the window it leaves you. Presumably you'd need to find a property during the last two-three weeks of August in order to afford it and avoid overlap? That's cutting it fine....

The landlord appears to be selling with vacant possession in which case they can't legally complete on the house with you in it. So any sale would fall through.

I am not saying this to be anti landlord but I get very angry at landlords who cba to recognise their basic legal responsibilities to tenants (like giving notice and asking permission for viewings)

[quote BarbarianMum]@Caffeinatedmonstergirl how exactly are you an a accidental landlord, did you wake up and find you unexpectedly owned a second house one morning? If you cant afford to lose 2 weeks rent then you can't afford to be a landlord at all.[/quote]
This annoys me too. If you cant afford any kind of financial hit then you really shouldn't be a landlord. You can only be an 'accidental' landlord until you sell so if it's really such a burden thats what you should do. If you choose to continue to let your property don't expect tenants to disadvantage themselves for your benefit if you refuse to allow them any flexibility either.

Your tenant has rights, i.e. to not allow access for viewings, what you can afford or not is irrelevant.

It’s shit, obviously, but that’s life. It’s one of the downsides of renting

And a tenant not allowing viewings (which they are perfectly entitled to do) is shit for you, obviously, but that's life. It's one of the downsides of being a landlord 🤷‍♀️

Your posts are unbelievably hypocritical I'm really surprised you dont see it.

[quote gnomeathome]@looptheloopinahulahoop Yes there is a deposit held in a deposit scheme. He said that any weeks short of the months notice would be taken out of the deposit. This is why I want to try and do it the right way.
I am just unsure about the legalities of if we have to give notice if he has given us notice. I will have a look on shelter and MSE. Everyone has been very helpful, thanks.[/quote]
The LL hasn't given you notice correctly. They need to serve a Notice seeking possession. (will more than likely be a s2) which has to give 4 month's notice now.
Then they have to follow the correct procedure by applying to court to make a claim for possession ( LL obligations have to be met for the notice to be valid
Your tenancy continues until either the tenant ends the tenancy by serving a notice to quit (by giving 1 Month notice ending on the first or last day of the tenancy period) or by the court once the LL has made their claim

Anything else outside of this can be negotiated between the parties.

Yes - even if you are served notice- as this doesn't end the tenancy- you will still have to serve notice as above if you wish to end the tenancy and your liability for rent.

As for allowing viewings- yes you do have the right to quiet enjoyment and you do not have to consent to allow anybody in.

However the clause allowing viewings is usually included in the agreement as it allows the LL to apply to court to make a claim for any financial losses they have suffered by not being able to market the property. (unlikely that this would happen - but people on here advise all the time - you don't have to let them in which is true but they are unaware that it is contractual term that could be enforced)

Negotiation with the LL will probably work here in your favour.
EG We are staying put until you go through the correct legal procedure to evict us (months and months at present) or you can agree to us leaving as soon as we have found somewhere and we'll go- therefore leaving you with a vacant property to do with as you wish)
Good luck

s21 Sorry

@sargass0 , thanks, I was wondering about us having to serve notice. I will be digging out the contract to have a look at the exact wording re allowing people to view the property. I would rather go the informal route (as it were) and come to an agreement, but obviously I need to arm myself with the correct information if he tries to start whipping out clauses. (Kind of doubt it as I don't think he knows what he is doing!) But I am sure will try it on if he thinks he can make more money on it.

Op, don't dig through the tenancy to find the wording - LLs put bullshit things in there all the time that they want, but aren't legally enforceable. I used to work in a service where we had to have ASTs provided and I've seen all sorts of crap, things like property is rented to professionals only and tenants have to notify LL if they later make a claim for housing benefit, tenant isn't allowed overnight guests, and my fave was a LL who put in the contract that he was legally allowed to visit the property to collect post...
Contact shelter, or look on their website. That will give you your minimum legal entitlements. The LL has no right to go lower than these requirements, regardless of anything they might put in a contract