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To think WHO are trying to commit organisational suicide? They’ve said that women of childbearing age should not drink alcohol AT ALL.

503 replies

RickiTarr · 17/06/2021 01:43

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/16/accused-sexism-saying-women-childbearing-age-should-not-drink/

OP posts:
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11
LadyOfLittleLeisure · 17/06/2021 11:01

@Anna727b

If they're going to say 'pregnant people' then surely it should be 'people of childbearing age'- doesn't alcohol consumption affect male fertility to an extent too anyway?
@Anna727b or perhaps 'people of child having age' since not all people can 'bear' children
ememem84 · 17/06/2021 11:01

@fallfallfall

i don't see the problem? please explain it to me. nothing good happens with or from alcohol use. i'm a fun sponge the people who i've seen drink say and do stupid shit and marriages and families are slowly destroyed. it would be great if women took the lead on this. not to mention alcohol use is a the waste of money.
i think the issue is that it potentially takes away choice. i like a drink. i don't drink to get drunk. i like the occasional glass of wine or g&T

to ban women from drinking until they hit menopause is ridiculous. how would it be done in practice? an arbitory age chosen - and ID to be shown when buying alcohol? what age though? 50? 35? 45?

what if you don't want kids, or can't have kids? what then?

its all gone a bit handmaids tale again hasn't it....

GoingGently · 17/06/2021 11:01

In this context I find the terms "decision makers" and "prevention" absolutely chilling... what about free will?

Iwonder08 · 17/06/2021 11:03

Who is not only useless but actually harmful. They should be closed

LadyOfLittleLeisure · 17/06/2021 11:04

@PattyPan then state the risks per each group for everyone to make their own informed decisions?

VettiyaIruken · 17/06/2021 11:04

Fuck me.
Imagine having to present a bartender with a note from your GP confirming you've gone through menopause before you're allowed a shandy.

Wtf is with all the attempts to take control of women's bodies and lives? They'll be keeping us in pens next!

Anna727b · 17/06/2021 11:05

@LadyOfLittleLeisure Yes I agree. Currently childless and not sure if that will change for me and I guess being grouped into the 'childbearing age' group just adds insult to injury for those wanting but unable to get pregnant.

CaribouCarafe · 17/06/2021 11:05

@LookingGlassMilk

journals.biologists.com/dmm/article/2/5-6/295/2233/Ethanol-induces-embryonic-malformations-by

I don't agree with the WHO advice, I'm of childbearing age, I drink alcohol and I'm not going to stop. I just don't like to see that yolk sac advice repeated because it might make people think that it's ok to drink at 4 or 5 weeks pregnant, which is the most dangerous time.

The study shows that scientists manipulating RA biosynthesis can produce FAS-like effects in clawed frogs. But it doesn't translate what the levels of alcohol would need to be in order to produce these effects, especially in humans.

If they did a study on binge-drinking frogs then I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

I'm extremely doubtful that a few drinks during the 2 week wait is going to result in a child with FASD, especially given the lack of direct blood supply between mother and foetus.

More relevantly, the study isn't anywhere near conclusive enough for the WHO to try and prevent all women of child-bearing age from drinking.

GoingGently · 17/06/2021 11:07

I think people talking about how unhealthy alcohol is are missing the point. Whilst alcohol IS unhealthy, the unnerving thing here is that it seems to be more about about bodily autonomy and removing personal choice from women. At the very least deliberately stigmatising them so they can be controlled by society.

The WHO are not talking about education campaigns and advertising guidelines so people can make an informed choice, they are talking about prevention targeted at women. It's a paradigm shift, and not a good one.

LookingGlassMilk · 17/06/2021 11:08

@LookingGlassMilk thanks for linking. I don't understand much of (my science A levels were a while back) but looks like this is mostly for "in frog, mouse and zebrafish embryos"

Here is one on macaques: academic.oup.com/cercor/article/17/12/2961/384220

Obviously there are ethical issues with doing a similar experiment on humans, but the same biological mechanisms apply.

Naunet · 17/06/2021 11:08

[quote PattyPan]@MarshaBradyo no I think it’s clumsy and misguided but I think some of the posts on this thread are a bit hysterical. There is no ‘safe’ amount of alcohol for anyone to drink at any stage in life, but people continue to drink a lot in this country. Probably they thought it would be easier to appeal to women by putting it like this because not drinking in pregnancy is already an accepted idea for most people.[/quote]
Hysterical?! Really showing yourself to be a misogynist here aren’t you?

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 17/06/2021 11:14

I’m not sure how many people pay too much attention to the WHO any more. Their cravenness towards China - hardly renowned for transparency! - while supposedly investigating the cause of the virus, was noted in plenty of official circles.

Not to mention the fact that any such UN related org, is stuffed with people on infinitely higher salaries than most of them would get elsewhere. So I dare say they feel the need to make pronouncements like this in order to justify their overpaid existence.

Mummyoflittledragon · 17/06/2021 11:15

Perhaps people of ‘child having age’ since not all people can ‘bear children’

That would mean any male from the start of puberty to death. Men would never agree to this. Ergo restricting men on the basis of child creating was evidently not considered.

LadyMonicaBaddingham · 17/06/2021 11:18

They still managed to squeeze a sneaky agenda-revealing reference to 'pregnant people' 🤦🏻‍♀️ in at the end of smacking down all the pregnant women and women of child-bearing age, I notice...

Mummyoflittledragon · 17/06/2021 11:18

Women of child bearing age should never….

Refuse sex

That’s what it is coming down to, isn’t it?!

BlackForestCake · 17/06/2021 11:19

Oh, now they know what women are, do they?

TatianaBis · 17/06/2021 11:20

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

I’m not sure how many people pay too much attention to the WHO any more. Their cravenness towards China - hardly renowned for transparency! - while supposedly investigating the cause of the virus, was noted in plenty of official circles.

Not to mention the fact that any such UN related org, is stuffed with people on infinitely higher salaries than most of them would get elsewhere. So I dare say they feel the need to make pronouncements like this in order to justify their overpaid existence.

Well our government does and their guidelines are the cornerstone of the Covid response here.
FirewomanSam · 17/06/2021 11:22

*Why is it shocking though? Alcohol is very bad for health...women who may want to conceive would be better off avoiding it. That's all there is to it.

They should say men too though.*

I agree with you on all the above but that’s why I think it’s shocking. It doesn’t say ‘women who may want to conceive’, it says ‘of child bearing age’ which is a very big difference. And as you say, it should include men too, since their drinking can impact on sperm quality too.

ememem84 · 17/06/2021 11:22

@BlackForestCake

Oh, now they know what women are, do they?
Quite.

i thought the term "woman" was one we weren't; really allowed to use anymore Grin

seems when it suits we can...

SparklyLeprechaun · 17/06/2021 11:22

They lost the plot. Have they warned against the risk of women driving cars yet?

PattyPan · 17/06/2021 11:23

@naunet have you read the report?
It’s not misogynistic to say some posters are being OTT referencing Gilead etc when it’s clearly ridiculous.

GorekyPark · 17/06/2021 11:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Triffid1 · 17/06/2021 11:28

Having also worked with large organisations who create these sorts of reports, I think @cindarellasbelly has a point about the sheer incompetence of the people** who write and edit them.

HOWEVER, that doesn't change the fact that whoever wrote that line and everyone who read it still has this deep seated misogyny about how women who might possibly or even have the potential ability to get pregnant need to be controlled and "protected". It's appalling.

Also, as other PP have said, it feels like the tip of the iceberg - whether it's being done consciously or unconsciously, women's freedoms feel like they're going backward, not forward.

** I was once the last person to review a huge piece of research a client had commissioned at a cost of £25k. It had gone through at least three business line heads of a global organisation. I was only involved because they wanted to make a big splash and I was in charge of the press release/press strategy. I read that damn thing 3 times in case I was missing something and then had to get on a call and point out that 1. there were no actual findings in the report 2. 2/3 of the report was a history of this type of business (that could have been written by anyone) and 3. the only actual statement the report made was to suggest that the people the client was targeting were all, basically, dishonest. It's SHOCKING how often this happens.

junipertree2 · 17/06/2021 11:28

@FortunesFave

Alcohol is fucking terrible for you. It is...nobody wants to admit it because they love it.

But it's really bad for health.

I daresay in moderation it is fine.

And if it is so terrible then why don't they tell men to stop drinking it? Think of the sexual assaults, domestic violence, financial abuse of dependents, etc that could be avoided, if only men the world over were ordered to be teetotal. Now that really would be a change that would benefit everyone.

Naunet · 17/06/2021 11:29

[quote PattyPan]@naunet have you read the report?
It’s not misogynistic to say some posters are being OTT referencing Gilead etc when it’s clearly ridiculous.[/quote]
Do you think clearly singling women out is perfectly reasonable? If so, then yes, you’re a misogynist.