In thinking being a SAHM is work?

[morepizza]

Work is defined as:

noun
noun: work; plural noun: works; plural noun: the works
1 1. 
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

I think this includes SAH parental duties. I know a lot of people don't agree with me. What else would it be called?

[quote notsogreenthumb]@IceCreamAndCandyfloss well I'm not a surgeon so I can't speak for that. But it's much harder than my full time job was.. because I could come home and have a break. I could sleep without being woken every hour through the night. I could eat in peace. I had my days off for me. There are no days off as a parent.

I don't know which phase of stay at home mum is being referred to but I for one, most definitely find the baby/toddler phase a full-time job and more.
[/quote]
But that's just being a parent, nothing to do with whether or not you work? If working out of the home should mean that you don't have to do sleepless nights, that you get days off for yourself and that you come home and have a break then I've been very ripped off!

@Sweak

I have not denied I am judgemental, I judge SAHM who moan about how hard it is. I judge women who don’t work. Why are there so few stay at home dads?

Probably lots of reasons why there aren't as many sahds...societies judgement being one, traditionalism, men on average earning more than women. Lots of reasons, more than I've given hear.

Why do you judge? It seems acceptable by society/MN that you judge a sahm. Yet it's unacceptable to judge a working mum. If I said I judge women for using childcare can you imagine the pile on on here? Yet you've said you judge sahm and barely a response

The opposite is the case: working mothers face far more prejudice.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-447676577*

I think my previous point has been proven well. The poster earlier said she judges sahms. Me and one other poster have commented.

Now several comments later from various people and no one else has said anything

Yet I bet if I wrote I judge mums who use childcare and wrote some judgemental bollocks posters would be all over it like a rash

My last job (before we relocated) was pretty easy and mostly in-stressful. I'm at home with two toddlers for the time being, and it's relentless. I don't get a minute to think or breathe or tidy up or go to the loo. I'd love to have a "day off" by going to my old job. Yes, I plan to get a job again. Yes, I've had other, much more stressful jobs. Also, when I only had one baby being at home wasn't that hard, particularly compared to some of my much stressier roles... you just can't compare and say definitely that "one thing is inherently more difficult than the other" (SAHP vs working).

[quote notsogreenthumb]@IceCreamAndCandyfloss well I'm not a surgeon so I can't speak for that. But it's much harder than my full time job was.. because I could come home and have a break. I could sleep without being woken every hour through the night. I could eat in peace. I had my days off for me. There are no days off as a parent.

I don't know which phase of stay at home mum is being referred to but I for one, most definitely find the baby/toddler phase a full-time job and more.
[/quote]
But lots of parents do have professional, difficult careers and still parent.

Comparing how you found working prior to having children is not remotely the same as a parent working full time and parenting. Do you think working parents get a break? That they don't spend their weekends looking after children? That they don't get up at night when their children wake up and comfort them, and still have to get up and work anyway? That actually they have far more to deal with at weekends around the house while also looking after kids because they haven't been at home for the whole week so been able to fit in laundry, cleaning etc before the weekend?

Some of these comments are beyond ridiculous.

Un-stressful*

Being a SAHM is much harder than going to work in a job! In a job you get a peaceful commute to think and listen to music. You drink multiple cups of coffee while they’re still hot and eat your lunch uninterrupted. You don’t get climbed on or clawed at. You get to do intellectually stimulating tasks which further your career ambitions and progress your life goals, which is not only rewarding but also engaging so you’re not bored. You have a reason to dress nicely and your appearance is valued. You talk to other adults about work and occasionally get to make small talk and crack jokes. Compare this to being a SAHM who’s stuck at home alone all day, bored and not progressing in life.

Well if it's so easy working and being a parent why don't you do it?

A SAHM is pretty much her own 'boss'. You can choose whether to have lunch at 12 or 1 - you don't have to fit around your colleagues. You have no commute. You can decide to go to the park just because it's a nice day

You haven't met my children. I rarely actually eat lunch nowadays.

But isn't that what OP asked @Hardbackwriter? Maybe I've misunderstood the thread. Isn't she asking if being a stay at home mum is work? Like you're still working. My point was, I'm a stay at home mum, but then when my husband comes home I'm still with the little one, and then when he's waking through the night I'm still with him. So it's the majority share of the parenting as I'm the one staying at home too, while my husband goes out to work. If our roles were reversed I think I'd be a lot calmer and relaxed as I'd be getting 'me time' while at my job, and then coming back home to parenting. Not sure if what I'm saying makes sense, it's late and I'm sleep deprived

Escapeas there is judgement both ways. Women can't win. Maybe I shouldn't have put 'society' and just stuck to this thread as like I say imagine the outrage if I wrote I judge working mothers....and look at the response the judgemental post about sahms got...

I prob made the mistake of equating society's views to those seen regularly on MN (I'm not saying there's no judgement of working mums on MN either..there's lots of that too)

But it's much harder than my full time job was.. because I could come home and have a break. I could sleep without being woken every hour through the night. I could eat in peace. I had my days off for me. There are no days off as a parent.

But it seems that you're comparing being a SAHP to life before you were a parent? Obviously, your life will be different when you're only responsible for yourself, but WOHPs don't magically get out of parenting duties when they go home from work. The comparison being made here is not pre-children vs post-children but SAHP vs WOHP.

Personally, I think it's a waste of time comparing in any case. Some jobs are incredibly demanding and some are piss easy. Some people are really capable and efficient in their jobs and some struggle with the most basic tasks. Some children are really easy and compliant, others are bratty and difficult. Some parents find childcare a walk in the park, others have no clue how to manage small children effectively. It's impossible to compare like with like so the endeavour is fruitless.

Well if it's so easy working and being a parent why don't you do it?

@Escapeas I can't answer for the PP, but I for one feel I'm the best person for my DS to be with right now. He's breastfed for one, feels more secure with me, and I can make sure he's getting all his needs without worry or stress and I know that there's no one that cares for him more than me [(and his dad) but I don't think he'd be as on the ball with things like being conscious of dangers around the house etc]. So as much as I would love to do it, it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make for my child. I know he's happiest when with me, so that's what I'll provide till he's older. For now I'm content with my decision but also acknowledge it's the hardest thing I've ever done and I used to work full-time and then come home, change and go to an evening role, and yet that was so much easier.

Personally, I think it's a waste of time comparing in any case. Some jobs are incredibly demanding and some are piss easy. Some people are really capable and efficient in their jobs and some struggle with the most basic tasks. Some children are really easy and compliant, others are bratty and difficult. Some parents find childcare a walk in the park, others have no clue how to manage small children effectively. It's impossible to compare like with like so the endeavour is fruitless.

Indeed. I said similar a few pages back.. yet here we still are! I reckon we will still be seeing these pointless arguments on page 40

@Sweak

I think my previous point has been proven well. The poster earlier said she judges sahms. Me and one other poster have commented.

Now several comments later from various people and no one else has said anything

Yet I bet if I wrote I judge mums who use childcare and wrote some judgemental bollocks posters would be all over it like a rash

I don't think that's fair. Many people choose to ignore silly posts as they distract from polite engagement with the discussion and they don't want a bun fight.

@AlexaShutUp but I disagree, it depends on the family but WOHP can end up getting away with parenting duties by the time they come home. Some days when my partner is back, our DS is already asleep, he can come in, eat, relax and have his evening. Whereas I'll be on call since DS wakes like crazy and only wants to breastfeed back to sleep. So I don't think the comparison can ever be made in general terms. Every family set up is so unique that it just wouldn't work. Some SAHM work far more than their partners, because they shoulder the responsibility of parenting as well as maintaining the home etc, and others have it really easy, use it as a chill time to see other friends etc and their partners work full shifts and come home to then also deal with their children/ dinner etc etc.

I'm over analysing this thread and I don't even know why. Think I'll sign off now 😅.

@Sweak

Escapeas there is judgement both ways. Women can't win. Maybe I shouldn't have put 'society' and just stuck to this thread as like I say imagine the outrage if I wrote I judge working mothers....and look at the response the judgemental post about sahms got...

I prob made the mistake of equating society's views to those seen regularly on MN (I'm not saying there's no judgement of working mums on MN either..there's lots of that too)

I agree that women can't win. I don't understand the vitriol at all. Everybody does the best they can, in their situation. There's just no need for it and IRL I see none of this: friends with professional jobs, friends just working to get by, single mothers, SAHP by choice and nobody judges anybody on it, we judge each other on our characters and personalities and values.

It's bizarre to me that this discussion comes up so regularly on Mumsnet with people making ever more extreme and illogical comments, and false analogies, to try to justify their choices. I don't know why they feel they need to. Just get on with your own life, who cares what anybody else thinks if you and your family are happy?

What is so hard about it @notsogreenthumb? Does your ds have additional needs that make it hard to care for him? Or do you think you just haven't taken to parenting very easily?

Not having a dig, I'm genuinely trying to understand. I just can't get my head around what it is that people find so difficult about looking after small children. Especially with only one DC. I do understand that it's totally different if you're caring for a disabled child.

@Escapeas
I don't think that's fair. Many people choose to ignore silly posts as they distract from polite engagement with the discussion and they don't want a bun fight.

People were all over the silly post which equated being a sahp with raising 'decent human beings'/doctors.

[quote notsogreenthumb]@AlexaShutUp but I disagree, it depends on the family but WOHP can end up getting away with parenting duties by the time they come home. Some days when my partner is back, our DS is already asleep, he can come in, eat, relax and have his evening. Whereas I'll be on call since DS wakes like crazy and only wants to breastfeed back to sleep. So I don't think the comparison can ever be made in general terms. Every family set up is so unique that it just wouldn't work. Some SAHM work far more than their partners, because they shoulder the responsibility of parenting as well as maintaining the home etc, and others have it really easy, use it as a chill time to see other friends etc and their partners work full shifts and come home to then also deal with their children/ dinner etc etc.

I'm over analysing this thread and I don't even know why. Think I'll sign off now 😅. [/quote]
Yeah, fair enough. You're looking at the life of a WOHP who has a SAHP that does everything, whereas I'm thinking about the life of a WOHP whose partner also WOH. The two are not comparable.

@notsogreenthumb

Well if it's so easy working and being a parent why don't you do it?

@Escapeas I can't answer for the PP, but I for one feel I'm the best person for my DS to be with right now. He's breastfed for one, feels more secure with me, and I can make sure he's getting all his needs without worry or stress and I know that there's no one that cares for him more than me [(and his dad) but I don't think he'd be as on the ball with things like being conscious of dangers around the house etc]. So as much as I would love to do it, it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make for my child. I know he's happiest when with me, so that's what I'll provide till he's older. For now I'm content with my decision but also acknowledge it's the hardest thing I've ever done and I used to work full-time and then come home, change and go to an evening role, and yet that was so much easier.

If he's breastfeeding still then he's very young so I don't think that's what most posters are discussing.

In an ideal world many parents would like to spend more time at home but children also need to be provided for financially.

Your comments about his father though are infantilising him. I'm sure he's perfectly capable of being a responsible adult at work. That's the type of attitude that women need to stop accepting, to ever have a chance of equality.

I just really do not understand why people find it so hard to see that objectively to work and have a child is harder, with an average child, simply because the number of hours in the day are limited. There are pros and cons to both obviously like with all things. But why does anybody care what anybody else does? Or need validation or recognition from strangers/ acquaintances for their lifestyle? I can't imagine posting on an anonymous forum asking random strangers to praise me for my work. So even if it is "work", why should anybody else care except the family?

@Escapeas I agree with your post about it not being the same in RL.

Maybe there's just something about hiding behind a screen so people feel they can be horrible.

I agree the posts justifying choices seem to get more bizarre. This thread in particular has shown that

Sorry I'm tagging you..my account won't allow me to reply directly to posts for some reason

@Sweak

Personally, I think it's a waste of time comparing in any case. Some jobs are incredibly demanding and some are piss easy. Some people are really capable and efficient in their jobs and some struggle with the most basic tasks. Some children are really easy and compliant, others are bratty and difficult. Some parents find childcare a walk in the park, others have no clue how to manage small children effectively. It's impossible to compare like with like so the endeavour is fruitless.

Indeed. I said similar a few pages back.. yet here we still are! I reckon we will still be seeing these pointless arguments on page 40

Yes. And your argument was refuted at that point.

“It’s only work if you’d rather be doing something else” as someone far wiser than I once said.

[quote Sweak]@Escapeas I agree with your post about it not being the same in RL.

Maybe there's just something about hiding behind a screen so people feel they can be horrible.

I agree the posts justifying choices seem to get more bizarre. This thread in particular has shown that

Sorry I'm tagging you..my account won't allow me to reply directly to posts for some reason[/quote]
Exactly. Very few people I know have these kinds of hangups. They don't care what other people do.

People are vile on the internet, I suppose to release unpleasant feelings about their own lives. Do not take it to heart.

It's crazy how many hundreds (thousands?) of threads have been posted on Mumsnet about this topic yet almost every week there's another one with the same old stuff trotted out.

@AlexaShutUp

What is so hard about it *@notsogreenthumb*? Does your ds have additional needs that make it hard to care for him? Or do you think you just haven't taken to parenting very easily?

Not having a dig, I'm genuinely trying to understand. I just can't get my head around what it is that people find so difficult about looking after small children. Especially with only one DC. I do understand that it's totally different if you're caring for a disabled child.

Perhaps a thread should be started on this . I'm sure many people would explain why it's so hard looking after small children.