In thinking being a SAHM is work?

[morepizza]

Work is defined as:

noun
noun: work; plural noun: works; plural noun: the works
1 1. 
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

I think this includes SAH parental duties. I know a lot of people don't agree with me. What else would it be called?

@Iploughthefieldsandscatter

So for the last year and a bit I have worked full time from home (70+ hours a week) whilst having two kids at home for most of that time. If I only had the kids to think about my life would be a dream and on my days off life is much easier. My ‘days off’ are the same as a SAHM ‘working day’ but it does not feel like work at all. So no, I don’t class being a SAHM as work. I do judge those who chose not to work, especially those with school aged children and it pisses me off when I hear them moan about how hard it is.

Why do you judge them though? Is it because you think all parents should work? Have you considered some literally can't afford to work, even part time, ev8if the children are older because not many jobs are 9-3 term time only. So should parents get in debt paying for childcare just so they are working?

I agree with @AlexaShutUp. Parenting is about the decisions you make about how to raise your child, what experiences to give them and what knowledge and values to share, creating a secure attachment and a stable home life where they can thrive, providing for them financially, showing them love etc and ultimately making sure you support them to grow into a decent, functional adult. None of those things can be "outsourced". While parents also carry out childcare while their children are small, I don't think childcare and parenting are the same thing at all.

There's nothing inherently difficult about my paid employment either to be fair.

@heidi128

Working a 40 hour week while managing a family is hard work Sahm is tough but nowhere near as hard especially if they are school age all that free time

I also have a child with SEN at complex needs school and I cope with having bipolar disorder. My son is 9 and obvs goes to another school. I work and manage it. My days off are spent doing housework laundry gardening and if I'm lucky a quick costa with a friend

@MildredPuppy

There's nothing inherently difficult about my paid employment either to be fair.

No, I'm sure that's true of many paid jobs, though mine is bloody difficult tbh!

I can go along with the idea that SAHP is work. I just don't agree that it's really "hard" work. But some jobs aren't "hard" either, and others are "hard" in different ways.

@TheMoth I do this too! I’ve never thought about calling myself superhuman, but after reading this thread I think I’ve realised that I must be 🤷‍♀️ (Although I guess it might not count if I didn’t empty the dishwasher before going to bed because after all the marking I quite frankly couldn’t be arsed... also I may have forgotten to hoover the other day. SAHP may see this as an essential that you need to add to your ‘demanding’ list of things to do. When you’ve only got an hour and 15 minutes after getting home to cook dinner, put a wash on, clean the kitchen, do your kids homework and reading and then get them ready for bed before getting on with more of you’re ‘paid work’, not so much). By the way I was a SAHP for nearly two years before going back into teaching. I’m not saying being a SAHP is easy or not a great thing to do, it’s a brilliant thing to do if you want to and are able to, but to say it’s as difficult or more difficult than working a paid job and looking after your kids (bar looking after children with complex needs obviously) you’ve got to be living on cloud fucking cuckoo land. Or have very little resilience and capacity for actual ‘hard work’.

Tbf, dh is my cook and dishwasher cos he only works a 40 hour week. 2 hr commute each day, but no work to do when he comes home.

Some children are easier than others. My youngest DD was awfully hard work when she was little (she still is but in a different way) whereas eldest DD and DS were easy babies (DS still is as he's only 1).
If you have children who are difficult it's much harder than going to work IMO. I was a SAHM for about 5 years with my older children but can't do it this time.
I'd love to be a SAHM again and am jealous of those who can stay home.

This is exactly why I judge, women who say they can’t work because there are no 9-5, term time only jobs. How often do you hear a man say that?

This is exactly why I judge, women who say they can’t work because there are no 9-5, term time only jobs. How often do you hear a man say that?

Not all women are sahp permanently. Not all women give this as their reason.

Nah, you're just judgemental.

@Rosesareyellow

I’m not saying being a SAHP is easy or not a great thing to do, it’s a brilliant thing to do if you want to and are able to, but to say it’s as difficult or more difficult than working a paid job and looking after your kids (bar looking after children with complex needs obviously) you’ve got to be living on cloud fucking cuckoo land. Or have very little resilience and capacity for actual ‘hard work’.

Whilst I'm anticipating my return to work to be much harder than staying at home, I feel I should point out something to you. There were actually quite a few wohm on this thread who said they found being a home harder. It's going to vary based on individual experiences.

Personally I find all this debate on who has it harder pointless...it wasn't actually what the OP asked either

@Sweak

This is exactly why I judge, women who say they can’t work because there are no 9-5, term time only jobs. How often do you hear a man say that?

Not all women are sahp permanently. Not all women give this as their reason.

Nah, you're just judgemental.

I didn’t say ALL women give that as their reason, I was replying to an argument posed upthread (quote did not post). I have not denied I am judgemental, I judge SAHM who moan about how hard it is. I judge women who don’t work. Why are there so few stay at home dads?

I have not denied I am judgemental, I judge SAHM who moan about how hard it is. I judge women who don’t work. Why are there so few stay at home dads?

Probably lots of reasons why there aren't as many sahds...societies judgement being one, traditionalism, men on average earning more than women. Lots of reasons, more than I've given hear.

Why do you judge? It seems acceptable by society/MN that you judge a sahm. Yet it's unacceptable to judge a working mum. If I said I judge women for using childcare can you imagine the pile on on here? Yet you've said you judge sahm and barely a response

*here not hear 😣

I wouldn't define it as employment but I most definitely would define it as full-time work. It is much more work than employment any day.

@Sweak

I have not denied I am judgemental, I judge SAHM who moan about how hard it is. I judge women who don’t work. Why are there so few stay at home dads?

Probably lots of reasons why there aren't as many sahds...societies judgement being one, traditionalism, men on average earning more than women. Lots of reasons, more than I've given hear.

Why do you judge? It seems acceptable by society/MN that you judge a sahm. Yet it's unacceptable to judge a working mum. If I said I judge women for using childcare can you imagine the pile on on here? Yet you've said you judge sahm and barely a response

My question ‘why are there not many SAHDs’ was rhetorical. While women continue to stay at home to do the childcare men will always earn more, society will always judge and traditionalism will never change.

While women continue to stay at home to do the childcare men will always earn more, society will always judge and traditionalism will never change.

There is some truth to that. But I desperately wanted to take a few years out to spend with my kids when they were little. I'm not sacrificing that for wider changes when we can also get change in other ways by campaigning, at the ballot box etc.

I would actually argue as someone who judges you are also part of the problem. It's not exactly freedom for women if they want to stay at home and they don't because of pressure from society.

Do you also judge SAHDs or is it just mums? My point about hours etc was that some families can't afford any form of childcare at all so no choice but to only work school hours and it could be either parent trying to do that.
There's a lot of judgment but no solutions to what parents on rubbish wages are supposed to do with their children if they can't afford childcare.
Some might say working incredibly long hours isn't good for children either as reduced family time.
What works for one family doesn't work for another?

@HushingDusk

It’s called being an adult and a parent - all parents if they work or not do it

Many parents (myself included as DH and I both work FT) contract out many of the jobs a SAHP would do. Eg a childminder for school runs. Breakfast club, after school club and holiday clubs. A cleaner to do a thorough clean every week plus the laundry.

Some people have a gardener or even an accountant (say you run your own business).

Ironing is often contracted out. Night nanny for babies/toddlers so working parents get sleep is common in some areas.

Ideally I’d like to work part time as 2 out the house FT parents is a constant juggling act, especially with covid waves and when children are ill or their class has to isolate etc. I’d also like to plan and make proper meals from scratch instead of relying on frozen food, remembering to marinate something the night before in a rush etc.

I think being a SAHP can be treated like a job, if you focus on your DC’s needs, education, development, nutrition etc. And if you take on the cleaning (or the hassle of finding cleaners), cooking, shopping, household admin. If you have goals eg improving the running of the home, or supporting your working partner to get a promotion, or focusing on your DC’s education and homework it can be viewed as a FT job. It depends how you look at the role.

Only in the middle class world of Mumsnet.

In my world, absolutely no one could afford to contract out any household jobs like cleaning and ironing.

@notsogreenthumb

I wouldn't define it as employment but I most definitely would define it as full-time work. It is much more work than employment any day.

I can’t see how it’s much more work than employment. You can hardly compare a surgeon etc to someone not working and claim the latter is harder.

No one is claiming it’s harder. There’s a lot of twisting of words going on (as usual).

But how is it not work? Not all work is paid.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss well I'm not a surgeon so I can't speak for that. But it's much harder than my full time job was.. because I could come home and have a break. I could sleep without being woken every hour through the night. I could eat in peace. I had my days off for me. There are no days off as a parent.

I don't know which phase of stay at home mum is being referred to but I for one, most definitely find the baby/toddler phase a full-time job and more.

Also if mums who work employ cleaners - because they cannot do it all (fair enough). Why do SAHM get rubbished for doing it all without employing others to do these jobs.

Think everyone should live there own life.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss I just realised a stay at home mum could mean mothers whose kids go to school and they're home without the kids. Ok I retract my statement as a generalisation but still hold the baby/toddler phase as far more work

@Kanitawa

Being a SAHM is much harder than going to work in a job! In a job you get a peaceful commute to think and listen to music. You drink multiple cups of coffee while they’re still hot and eat your lunch uninterrupted. You don’t get climbed on or clawed at. You get to do intellectually stimulating tasks which further your career ambitions and progress your life goals, which is not only rewarding but also engaging so you’re not bored. You have a reason to dress nicely and your appearance is valued. You talk to other adults about work and occasionally get to make small talk and crack jokes. Compare this to being a SAHM who’s stuck at home alone all day, bored and not progressing in life.

I got bored reading all the self-absorbed posts but this I had to comment on!!!!

I don't "get a peaceful commute" - I battle my way through heavy traffic.

I hate coffee.

I don't get lunch uninterrupted as with my role, if people see me there, they say, "oh I don't mean to disturb you when you're having your lunch, but..."!!!

While in a professional post, plenty of the work is neither "intellectually stimulating" nor does it "further [my] career ambitions or "progress [my] life goals. A lot of it is endlessly frustrating, and yes, sometimes boring.

I work in an environment where management's attitude is extremely difficult to work with, and, instead of being supportive, they are always looking for a way to 'catch you out'.

I "talk to other adults about work" but can never be truly open, because you never know what is going to be passed on, and used against you in the future.

You are very naive if you believe we all work in this Utopia-style environment. Tell that to a nurse/doctor, manual worker doing shifts, someone engaged in repetitive tasks because hey, it pays the bills!!!

A SAHM is pretty much her own 'boss'. You can choose whether to have lunch at 12 or 1 - you don't have to fit around your colleagues. You have no commute. You can decide to go to the park just because it's a nice day, or you can think, "I can't be bothered to go swimming today with X so I will do it tomorrow instead". You can meet up with those friends not encumbered by an employer, or family, whenever you wish. You can concentrate on your family life without any thoughts of work issues encroaching on your time.

You can select a suitable time for the swimming/music/sports lessons, instead of hurtling dangerously down a motorway in an effort not to be late, and spending the evenings doing them when everyone is tired and cranky.

A SAHM is NOT "stuck at home alone all day, bored..." - you can go where you want when you want, and you don't have to book a precious day of your miserable annual leave allocation for every school Christmas nativity or sports day.

As for WORK - when did parents become so 'entitled' as to 'complain' that bringing up their children is 'work'? It's not the 1940s; it's a choice. WORK was when mums were bathing their kids in tin baths in front of the fire and washing the nappies with a mangle.

Also - I'm surprised by the sexist attitudes on MN. What about SAHDs? I only know 2. Why do mums have to be AH to bring up their children successfully, and dads don't??!

Lastly, for me personally, I was never prepared to put all my financial eggs in one basket. I've been married for more than 30 years but I would never have felt comfortable not having my own income. My three children are all grown up, and I am very proud of how they have turned out. I'm also proud of me.