that the idea of registration for cyclists is silly, unworkable and unenforceable

[KihoBebiluPute]

This idea was featured on Radio 4 on monday morning and is also in the telegraph - Nick Freeman (the motorists loophole lawyer) is trying to drum up support for a scheme to force cyclists to register and display a number plate type thing.

I get that there are plenty of selfish and sometimes dangerous cyclists out there, but the numbers of deaths and injuries caused by dangerous cycling is a minuscule fraction of the numbers caused by careless driving and the whole idea seems totally unrealistic to me.

(1) For number plates to work as a reasonably reliable registration method for cars, the manufacture of number plates has to be quite tightly controlled - criminals do clone plates but it's not easy for an ordinary member of the public to get a plate without proof of ownership, and plates are fixed to the correct car and generally stay put. Any kind of wearable registration plate for cyclists would necessarily be something portable and would therefore be so easy to lose or nick that it would be functionally useless as a means of identification because there couldn't be any means to verifiably ensure that each plate was only ever carried by the correctly registered individual associated with that number plate.

(2) cyclists don't come into the world as fully formed MAMILs - and the sight of a 6 year old wobbling along the pavement next to a parent is quite normal. There's no sharp divide between a kid just learning and a fully independent cyclist, no test to pass or license to grant. There's just a gradual build up of skills and road-sense and a gradual reduction in parental supervision. so there's no rational way to define when someone should start being registered (presumably no one thinks it should apply to kids who are just learning)

(3) its frankly stupid to put up any kind of additional barrier to make it more complicated to make a trip by bike rather than getting in the car. It's currently just about a reasonable balance for me for a lot of journeys - a tiny bit of extra hassle to find my helmet and D-lock, but the benefit of not having to find or pay for parking balances that enough that some fraction of the car-miles I might otherwise make, generating traffic congestion and pollution, gets turned into the green alternative of cycling. Upset this balance by making it a legal requirement to wear and carry this proposed registration plate and the net effect will be to drive up car traffic at a time when we should be doing everything we can to achieve the opposite.

Agree with OP. Suggest cameras for all vehicles so we can clearly identify twattish behaviour.
Also there are both bad drivers and cyclists it’s the latter who are imposing in roads not really built for both cars and cyclists. Bearing in mind that ‘cycling clubs’ are riding for leisure but people in cars are going about their daily business the latter takes priority.

This is for the specific case of loads of cyclists!
No issue with single cycles provided they can ride straight ... 😂 I’ve seen some worse than me drunk

Horse riders are also wearing cameras so they can report dangerous driving. So the knobheads can expect a visit from the police

@LateAtTate

Agree with OP. Suggest cameras for all vehicles so we can clearly identify twattish behaviour. Also there are both bad drivers and cyclists it’s the latter who are imposing in roads not really built for both cars and cyclists. Bearing in mind that ‘cycling clubs’ are riding for leisure but people in cars are going about their daily business the latter takes priority.

Most mornings and evenings since last year I seen cyclists in groups of up to 5 who aren't wearing lycra and have clearly come from work.

Why do they take less priority then the builders in their vans, particularly when their work place is likely to be the local hospital or now the local vaccine centre?

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

But they don’t.

They don’t go into Chatsworth or Bakewell or the millions of little tea shops. The garden centres/ souvenir shops, gift shops never have cyclists in them. And how would they carry stuff home from these anyway?

Rest and Be Thankful café on Great Orme is popular with cyclists doing the circuit. Plenty of pubs too do good business out of cyclists. I've cycled home with framed pictures from my local second hand shop before now.

@RedMarauder my comment was related to cycling clubs which have 10-20 people riding side by side. ON the road rather than on a cycling lane. Driving too slowly is an offence - it would both make you fail a driving test and you can be pulled over by police. So how is any road condition that causes this acceptable? If it’s a good idea for cars to be stuck behind cyclists then there’s no need for slow driving to be considered an offence as it’s the same principle.

Cyclists should stay in their lane (or by the side of the road) and single file. If they think that’s too slow then they should take public transport and not cycle. This is not a question of who’s superior, it’s a question of road safety!

From the Highway Code :

Lateattate, so all the roads in the UK were built for cars

@Macncheeseballs nope - some of them were indeed built for cycles. That’s why they have things like cycle lanes

Indeed plenty of roads were not built for cars, not sure why car drivers think they own them

Also if you read what I posted - the Highway Code itself advises slow moving vehicles to not obstruct traffic.
While cyclists aren’t in there because the code as pp said is outdated - if slow moving vehicles are considered to obstruct traffic then yes , cyclists are obstructing traffic if in the same line. This is not picking on cyclists because the same rules apply to drivers of big, scary,exhaust emitting vehicles like big lorries. It’s just the rules

I for one would be happier to see more road sections reserved for cyclists - but getting them and other vehicles to use the same lane is not safe.

Also the argument isn’t whom they were built for it’s about safety!
You haven’t answered my main point @Macncheeseballs. If slow moving vehicles obstructing traffic is considered to be a hazard in the Highway Code what makes cyclists exempt? Are you saying that the Highway Code is wrong then?

Kinda yeah, anything that encourages cycling is good

So you don’t actually care about road safety - you’d rather people continue to cycle even if it’s dangerous.

The irony is that people like you are actually bad for the cycle lane cause. If people continue to believe that the roads in their current state are fit for all road users there’s no incentive for cycle lanes to be built. Providing a safe way for people to cycle is what will get more people cycling. Not forcing them onto hazardous roads. Twattish behaviour aside roads are dangerous simply because there are humans wielding several hundred pounds of metal, moving things and they’re bound to make mistakes. Even the safest and most careful drivers won’t make a road full of traffic safe for cycles. If you don’t expect pedestrians to walk in the middle of roads and stick to their lanes why don’t you expect cyclists (who are the next most vulnerable) to do so?

Cyclists should stay in their lane (or by the side of the road) and single file. If they think that’s too slow then they should take public transport and not cycle. This is not a question of who’s superior, it’s a question of road safety!
Telling cyclists to be single file is generally something that comes from drivers who dont want to do a safe overtake and would prefer to squeeze past. It's perfectly reasonable to ride side by side. One overtake round 2 bikes side by side is safer than one overtake around 2 bikes 1 behind the other as the distance spent on the other side of the road whilst safely overtaking is shorter.

The side of the road is where most cyclists ride. They just tend not to ride in the gutter and limit their ability to move around hazards/respond to drivers being too close in order to appease drivers who think they should be able to squeeze past cyclists instead of driving safely.

"Cyclists should stay in their lane (or by the side of the road) and single file. If they think that’s too slow then they should take public transport and not cycle. This is not a question of who’s superior, it’s a question of road safety!"

Really? Because that sounds suspiciously like a case of "Fucking cyclists getting in my way" to me.

UrAWizHarry
That's what most of the arguments come back to when it comes to cyclists: big important drivers have big important things to do and other road users shouldn't be in their way.

Yup.

Learning how to safely drive around cyclists and other vunerable road users should be part of the driving test, because fuck knows there are few drivers who understand things like why cyclists might not be entirely happy cycling in the gutter.

Of course you can overtake but only if the road is low traffic in the first space... in that case this issue of obstructing traffic isn’t really relevant.
Also I love the mostly emotional responses when presented with valid safety concerns, and assumptions regarding my opinions of cyclists.
Believe it or not I am only now (10++ years after leaving home) learning to drive - guess how I got around before that?
In situations where there is enough road space for users to share then yes, cars should overtake safely (although I’ve seen my fair share of idiotic drivers who insist on driving close to me). But how are you supposed to do so in back to back traffic across several lanes? Or on a narrow country road at 8 a.m. where there isn’t enough space for two cars to be side by side, let alone a car and several cyclists?
In these cases the only option is for a whole line of traffic (nobody’s saying this is not limited to cars mind you -,buses etc are also involved) to stuck behind a cyclist. This is not a special privilege reserved for cyclists but for , again anything slow moving.
Even when I get a car I’ll continue to cycle as much as possible but there’s a time when the road is suitable and safe and when it’s not. All of you can keep moaning about cars but accidents happen even between cars.
The solution to this is to designate car free times and designate more cycling lanes which I’m pleased to see is gaining traction ...

@LateAtTate

How do you over take tractors? JCBs? horse riders? yesterday was behind a touring caravan that rarely went above 20mph, must have been 30 or 40 cars behind them.

Why do you think people in cars are "going about their business?" but cycling clubs are there just for leisure?

So people not drive to get to holiday destinations, NT properties, beaches, garden centres, the Peak district for "leisure purposes"

Cycling clubs tend to meet up on w/e's when, generally speaking, many people are driving for leisure.....

Much like drink driving, until deterrent sentences are introduced, dangerous driving around horse riders, cyclists, pedestrians will continue.
Segregation of cars/cyclists is totally impractical, we should be aiming to reduce cars on the roads, not encouraging more.

Based on your opinions, the driving test needs urgent updating.

Where I live there are lots of people using bikes and escooters on the pavement, it is very dangerous, registration is needed.

@tttigress

Where I live there are lots of people using bikes and escooters on the pavement, it is very dangerous, registration is needed.

Look where you are going?

Escooters are illegal to use in a public space, unless hired out as part of a business, if so, they are allowed on the pavement, are registered and are insured.

However, these restrictions are likely to be lifted soon.

This street has been closed to cars for well over 6 months. Yes cyclists need to abide by the law but so do motorists. Every one of these is breaking the law. Let's not pretend motorists are angels. There must be 200 cars a day drive down here and the signs are clear.

Escooters are illegal to use in a public space, unless hired out as part of a business, if so, they are allowed on the pavement, are registered and are insured

They’re not allowed on the pavement

I live in an area where they are trialling Beryl scooters. The local police are posting constantly that they are absolutely not allowed to be ridden on pavements

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55361818