that the idea of registration for cyclists is silly, unworkable and unenforceable

[KihoBebiluPute]

This idea was featured on Radio 4 on monday morning and is also in the telegraph - Nick Freeman (the motorists loophole lawyer) is trying to drum up support for a scheme to force cyclists to register and display a number plate type thing.

I get that there are plenty of selfish and sometimes dangerous cyclists out there, but the numbers of deaths and injuries caused by dangerous cycling is a minuscule fraction of the numbers caused by careless driving and the whole idea seems totally unrealistic to me.

(1) For number plates to work as a reasonably reliable registration method for cars, the manufacture of number plates has to be quite tightly controlled - criminals do clone plates but it's not easy for an ordinary member of the public to get a plate without proof of ownership, and plates are fixed to the correct car and generally stay put. Any kind of wearable registration plate for cyclists would necessarily be something portable and would therefore be so easy to lose or nick that it would be functionally useless as a means of identification because there couldn't be any means to verifiably ensure that each plate was only ever carried by the correctly registered individual associated with that number plate.

(2) cyclists don't come into the world as fully formed MAMILs - and the sight of a 6 year old wobbling along the pavement next to a parent is quite normal. There's no sharp divide between a kid just learning and a fully independent cyclist, no test to pass or license to grant. There's just a gradual build up of skills and road-sense and a gradual reduction in parental supervision. so there's no rational way to define when someone should start being registered (presumably no one thinks it should apply to kids who are just learning)

(3) its frankly stupid to put up any kind of additional barrier to make it more complicated to make a trip by bike rather than getting in the car. It's currently just about a reasonable balance for me for a lot of journeys - a tiny bit of extra hassle to find my helmet and D-lock, but the benefit of not having to find or pay for parking balances that enough that some fraction of the car-miles I might otherwise make, generating traffic congestion and pollution, gets turned into the green alternative of cycling. Upset this balance by making it a legal requirement to wear and carry this proposed registration plate and the net effect will be to drive up car traffic at a time when we should be doing everything we can to achieve the opposite.

Cars are shit IMO @DynamoKev - for example children have reduced lung capacity compared to older generations due to traffic pollution. I think that is sub-optimal.

If we could click our fingers to a clean mass transit system that was really well designed and cheaper we would be happier and healthier. But hard to get there from here.

I spent years working in the city and witnessed many, many altercations between cyclists and pedestrians in that time

altercations are a bit different.

And if a pedestrian causes an accident they can disappear easily without being traced as well, unless there are witnesses who recognise them at the time or from CCTV.

Too much emphasis is placed on cyclists causing a danger to society, when the real problem is drivers' inattention and impatience, and the pollution caused by cars.

Attacking cyclists is a pointless and distracting sideshow.

If we could click our fingers to a clean mass transit system that was really well designed and cheaper we would be happier and healthier. But hard to get there from here

The Dutch and Danes have done pretty well but it's a long term project, clearly. They have great cycling infrastructure and decent public transport too (and you can take bikes on trains - we have stupid rail companies who only let about two bikes on an entire train at a time).

Maybe the way round this is not licence cars or bikes but to licence humans with a number plate then even when pedestrians we can police what they are doing. We could issue them in secondary school, a tattoo or just bolt on a metal plate, either would work.

@PracticingPerson

Cars are shit IMO *@DynamoKev* - for example children have reduced lung capacity compared to older generations due to traffic pollution. I think that is sub-optimal.

If we could click our fingers to a clean mass transit system that was really well designed and cheaper we would be happier and healthier. But hard to get there from here.

That doesn't make cars shit and there is plenty of pollution in cities from other vehicles, aircraft and a lot from industry and even people's woodburners. As someone upthread observed, a mass transit system won't get your furniture from IKEA or a big supermarket shop. As much as you hate cars, they are going to be hard to eradicate without a massive change to our entire economy and the forced relocation of rural dwellers to cities.

I'm all for it. It should have been done years ago.

Some cyclists are a real danger to pedestrians but there is no way of calling them to account at the moment. I was unable to report the one that knocked me over as he was gone in a flash.

Love this 'a cyclist was rude to me'. As if the motorists are pleasant and obey the traffic laws. No to a registration because the DVLA cant even tell how many cars are on the road. To maintain the database will cost £££ and no one would enforce it. what about multiple bike ownership?

@LadyPoison

I'm all for it. It should have been done years ago.

Some cyclists are a real danger to pedestrians but there is no way of calling them to account at the moment. I was unable to report the one that knocked me over as he was gone in a flash.

..and you imagine he's the sort of upstanding citizen who will gladly sign up and affix a number plate to his bike do you? Because if not, we're all going to need to pay for an army of Police to catch twats like him. In which case we won't even need the daft registration scheme. You haven't really thought this through have you?

@Pedallleur

Love this 'a cyclist was rude to me'. As if the motorists are pleasant and obey the traffic laws. No to a registration because the DVLA cant even tell how many cars are on the road. To maintain the database will cost £££ and no one would enforce it. what about multiple bike ownership?

Exactly - DVLA freely admits some cars have no owner details. The government actually has no idea how many people are in the country.

But sure we can register all bikes and their users - it'll be a piece of piss, I'll have it done by Tuesday.

@PracticingPerson

Maybe the way round this is not licence cars or bikes but to licence humans with a number plate then even when pedestrians we can police what they are doing. We could issue them in secondary school, a tattoo or just bolt on a metal plate, either would work.

@DynamoKev Did you mean to be so rude?

Were you the cyclist on the pavement who sent me flying?

[quote LadyPoison]@DynamoKev Did you mean to be so rude?

Were you the cyclist on the pavement who sent me flying?[/quote]
Eh?
Have you got me mixed up with someone else?
How do you think this scheme that "should have been done years ago" will work exactly? Or maybe you haven't really thought it through?

Weirdly I have just got home thinking I wish this was a thing.
I almost just killed a cyclist who had all the right gear but NO IDEA about how to safely navigate the road. I beeped him when he cut me up and then saw him continue to behave recklessly with other motorists.
If I'd hit him I'd have been blamed and had to live with it forever.

Why oh why when anyone suggests that there might just be some cyclists that behave like utter arseholes, a bunch of people have to run to the rescue with "but, but, but drivers, they're massive idiots, all of them!" 😂

I think the time has now come for there to be some way of identifying cyclists and there should be some sort of insurance necessary for adult cyclists.

Somebody previously said 'but what about horse riders and pedestrians, surely they should be insured too?'. Well, speaking for myself, we and our horses are insured third party in case we cause an accident, so there and pedestrians, well, one step at a time. Clearly cyclists are causing more issues and annoyance for people than pedestrians for obvious reasons 😅

In a way, I do have pedestrian insurance - I have home insurance which covers me for legal issues.

Somebody previously said 'but what about horse riders and pedestrians, surely they should be insured too?'. Well, speaking for myself, we and our horses are insured third party in case we cause an accident

My horses are insured 3rd party too. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t at least have BHS membership for the 3rd party liability insurance.

Both horses are also microchipped (which is now a legal requirement) and when DD goes out we have tags on her tack engraved with our details.

Should they escape/DD have a fall and cause an accident, they can be traced back to us.

But, some bloke has a massive strop because he had to slow down and actually gets off his bike and chucks it at DD and her pony - no idea who he is and despite capturing on DD’s helmet cam nothing can be done about it

@dottydaylia

Why oh why when anyone suggests that there might just be some cyclists that behave like utter arseholes, a bunch of people have to run to the rescue with "but, but, but drivers, they're massive idiots, all of them!" 😂

I think the time has now come for there to be some way of identifying cyclists and there should be some sort of insurance necessary for adult cyclists.

Somebody previously said 'but what about horse riders and pedestrians, surely they should be insured too?'. Well, speaking for myself, we and our horses are insured third party in case we cause an accident, so there and pedestrians, well, one step at a time. Clearly cyclists are causing more issues and annoyance for people than pedestrians for obvious reasons 😅

I think the time has now come for there to be some way of identifying cyclists How?

@DynamoKev

Waste of time trying to change peoples blinkered views DynamoK, some people have nothing else better to do than to try and stop people riding a bicycle, just so they can have the road to themselves.

Hard to believe but since the brexit vote, more people have have killed or very seriously injured by car drivers than have died with Covid, inc over 1000 children killed..... but but but .... fucking cyclists!!!

[quote jasjas1973]@DynamoKev

Waste of time trying to change peoples blinkered views DynamoK, some people have nothing else better to do than to try and stop people riding a bicycle, just so they can have the road to themselves.

Hard to believe but since the brexit vote, more people have have killed or very seriously injured by car drivers than have died with Covid, inc over 1000 children killed..... but but but .... fucking cyclists!!![/quote]
The irony is I am not especially pro or anti cars or bikes.
I am simply trying to point out (as the op did) that trying to licence all bikes and cyclists is just utterly unworkable and I am baffled that anyone thinks it could be done. I have all the proponents in this thread about the practical aspects and have had no substantive answers. The person who advocated welding some kind of plate to every bike soon ran away when questioned about the details.

I am actually quite sad that people can keep parroting blatantly ridiculous ideas of this kind - with seemingly no consideration of how they would work.

I mean for this idea to work we’d need to be North Korea and I bet they don’t even do it there.

@Aprilx well the only sensible way forward would be, as some have lightheartedly suggested on this thread, to register all humans with a numberplate so that anyone can be held accountable for their misdemeanours no matter what they do and what they do it in.

The introduction of such laws as proposed, is a knee jerk reaction to something without any actual thinking through of how it will be implemented and if it is cost effective. I use the evidence of cars being registered and insured yet they still cause more deaths and injuries per year than cyclists to illustrate the futility of such proposals yet you cannot see that. So rather than reply to my stupid comment can you please provide evidence that this would work and how it would be funded?

My last flippant remark led me down one of those internet wormholes and apparently, there is a licence and registration scheme for bikes in North Korea. There is almost no private car ownership either.
A few posters on this thread would seemingly be very happy there.
I suspect the high price of cycles there might upset a few though.

Nonetheless for me it's illustrative of the fact the only circumstances where this cycle registration scheme could work are totalitarian authoritarian regimes

Also a quick Google suggests that North Korean rules banning females from riding bikes are widely ignored - and apparently people don't bother registering their bikes outside big cities - and that's in a famously rules-based regime!

can't get them to put lights on them let alone anything else

@DynamoKev

Umbra

I think it's a brilliant idea.

As a motorbike rider and car driver, I have to be accountable for my actions via my numberplate - why not cyclists too.

Because you haven't given a moment's thought to the practicalities. There's plenty of information about why this is a stupid, pointless and unworkable idea on this thread.

Nah mate. Impractical? You're reaching there...

Although I am dead against this idea, and would DIE rather than have anything welded to my precious steeds, for the flailing stumblebums who 'think' (huh, like they do) that this is a good idea - here are some ways it could be implemented:

1. When you buy a bicycle, you are issued with a packet of 12 helium balloons upon each of which is emblazoned a registration number. And some string. Before you ride, you must attach one of the balloons to your handlebars. It will then float serenely above you as you cycle around, making it easy to identify you if you transgress. If the balloon bursts or get lost, attach another. And when the packet runs out, you must purchase another one.

1. Keeping with the aerial theme, homing pigeons could be trained to follow you. Each pigeon would be ringed with a unique identification number linked to your home address. Should you transgress, the pigeon would be trained to fly to the nearest police station to grass you up.

1. What with GPS and smartphones and shit, there MUST be some way of applying this technology to track miscreant cyclists. There must be. Must be! MUST BE. MUST.

1. Squads of helicopters could hover above our cities, and police officers equipped with binoculars could ceaselessly scan the streets below. Miscreant cyclists can then be taken out by high-velocity rifle.

1. All new bicycles could be equipped with a sharp spike sheathed within the seat tube. Should the cyclist break the law, the spike would spring upward, spearing them through the clackervalve and lancing through their guts, thus terminating their life, and ending their TRANSGRESSING forever.

1. My favourite. All cyclists should have their eyes put out. Therefore, they would be unable to cycle. They would have to walk, tap tap tapping away with their white sticks, and guide dogs, not being a menace to anyone anymore.

Simple, sensible solutions for a better, safer world.