that the idea of registration for cyclists is silly, unworkable and unenforceable

[KihoBebiluPute]

This idea was featured on Radio 4 on monday morning and is also in the telegraph - Nick Freeman (the motorists loophole lawyer) is trying to drum up support for a scheme to force cyclists to register and display a number plate type thing.

I get that there are plenty of selfish and sometimes dangerous cyclists out there, but the numbers of deaths and injuries caused by dangerous cycling is a minuscule fraction of the numbers caused by careless driving and the whole idea seems totally unrealistic to me.

(1) For number plates to work as a reasonably reliable registration method for cars, the manufacture of number plates has to be quite tightly controlled - criminals do clone plates but it's not easy for an ordinary member of the public to get a plate without proof of ownership, and plates are fixed to the correct car and generally stay put. Any kind of wearable registration plate for cyclists would necessarily be something portable and would therefore be so easy to lose or nick that it would be functionally useless as a means of identification because there couldn't be any means to verifiably ensure that each plate was only ever carried by the correctly registered individual associated with that number plate.

(2) cyclists don't come into the world as fully formed MAMILs - and the sight of a 6 year old wobbling along the pavement next to a parent is quite normal. There's no sharp divide between a kid just learning and a fully independent cyclist, no test to pass or license to grant. There's just a gradual build up of skills and road-sense and a gradual reduction in parental supervision. so there's no rational way to define when someone should start being registered (presumably no one thinks it should apply to kids who are just learning)

(3) its frankly stupid to put up any kind of additional barrier to make it more complicated to make a trip by bike rather than getting in the car. It's currently just about a reasonable balance for me for a lot of journeys - a tiny bit of extra hassle to find my helmet and D-lock, but the benefit of not having to find or pay for parking balances that enough that some fraction of the car-miles I might otherwise make, generating traffic congestion and pollution, gets turned into the green alternative of cycling. Upset this balance by making it a legal requirement to wear and carry this proposed registration plate and the net effect will be to drive up car traffic at a time when we should be doing everything we can to achieve the opposite.

But I certainly wouldn't be stopping halfway up a hill and then having to do a hill start!

I passed a cyclist (in lycra and with drop handlebars!) on a 60mph road yesterday, waited until it was safe, passed wide and HE THANKED ME!!! I was gobsmacked! I do it to motorists all the time when cycling (hang over from my horse riding days) but never had anyone thank me!

I would like it to be compulsory for all cyclists to have fluorescent helmets and/or shoes, preferably clothes too but it does get a bit warm wearing an additional yellow layer in the summer. I don't understand cyclists who wear all black - on a black bike that so easily merges into the hedgerow/background however carefully I'm driving. And fluorescent yellow or pink is often easier to spot than a light

Oh I always thank drivers who have waited.

But where I’m talking about is very narrow with lots of sharp bends. But also very popular.

Massive tailbacks as cars can’t overtake the club. Too many bends and too much traffic coming the other way.

YANBU. It's not like having a license or insurance has ever stopped drivers driving dangerously or uninsured. There are something like 1million uninsured drivers in the UK, 2000 road deaths, and 200,000 REPORTED injuries.

All these people wishing to "catch" cyclists and "hold them to account", do they not realise how the police go about solving crimes? It's not like a mugger or an attacker carry around license plates.

@jasjas1973

I'm as a keen a cyclist as you d ever meet but the attitude that we have every right to be there and cars just have to wait, is one that causes huge friction between cars and cyclists, even if in law, its correct.

Stopping to avoid long tailbacks and staying off busy roads (where possible) is reasonable.

We might do 20mph + on the flat but we don't on the hills.

Yes, when my daughter is hacking on roads on her pony she’ll always pull over and let traffic past.

She doesn’t stop every time there’s a car behind her, but if a queue has built up behind her, she’ll stop as soon as there’s somewhere safe to do so and let them past.

I live out in the sticks and tractors, slow moving farm machinery, etc will always pull over

All have as much right to be on the road as cars, but I think it’s reasonable to be honest.

Well I genuinely don't think I've ever been in a situation where there has been a "massive tailback". A couple of cars might have had to wait for between 1-2 mins max. Yes, they can wait. It's hardly the end of the world. If I had a "massive tailback" I might pull in.

CovidCorvid.

Next time l go I’ll get a picture and upload it!

I live near the Peak District. It’s hugely popular with everyone. There is one particular road ( above Froggat) that always has masses of cyclists on it. It also has masses of cars.

It’s mayhem. Cars can’t get past due to the narrow road and the bends. Cycling club will stretch out so maybe15 or 20 people cycling. Some together, some apart and some ahead. And it causes huge tailbacks.

It’s even worse when cyclists are in the other side of the road. No one can get past at any point.

Tricky isn't it?
cyclists wanting to cycling in beautiful places!

Who is causing the most environmental damage? take out the locals and most vehicles will be tourists, wrecking verges, causing accidents, speeding, hitting farm animals, dropping a pile of litter and thats before they get to that picnic area and leave even more litter, block gateways and lanes.
Please don''t say its a minority, its not.

Huge traffic issues on Dartmoor, compared to cyclists, cars and their occupants are the problem, thats from my Dartmoor ranger friend, who is quite anti cyclist.

I don’t do any of that, and it’s the tourists in the cars that bring money what is an essentially rural area.

I'm sure the cyclists will also bring in money, they will stop for a cafe stop, pub stop, etc.

But they don’t.

They don’t go into Chatsworth or Bakewell or the millions of little tea shops. The garden centres/ souvenir shops, gift shops never have cyclists in them. And how would they carry stuff home from these anyway?

I am a cyclist and a driver. I do not support any registration of cyclists, the costs and benefits of doing so are disproportionate. I am not aware of any jurisdiction that has such a scheme. In most European countries where cycling is common (Holland for example), the law presumes that the driver is accountable for an accident unless there is evidence for the contrary. This reflects the relative vulnerability of the cyclist and driver. Cycling is a healthy and green form of transport and we should be doing everything we can to encourage it, registration would put a real dampner on this.

They are using the roads to cycle in, not to be tourists.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

CovidCorvid.

Next time l go I’ll get a picture and upload it!

I live near the Peak District. It’s hugely popular with everyone. There is one particular road ( above Froggat) that always has masses of cyclists on it. It also has masses of cars.

It’s mayhem. Cars can’t get past due to the narrow road and the bends. Cycling club will stretch out so maybe15 or 20 people cycling. Some together, some apart and some ahead. And it causes huge tailbacks.

It’s even worse when cyclists are in the other side of the road. No one can get past at any point.

Cars are the problem, not cyclists.

What do you think causes traffic in towns and cities and on major roads? Cars and lorries and tractors, not cyclists. For all the times people have been held up by a cyclist for a few minutes there will be 100 times you'd have been held up by a car.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

They are using the roads to cycle in, not to be tourists.

I cycle and we always have a cafe stop, its part of cycling culture - you don't know what or why people are cycling in the Peak district for, they could be tourists staying locally using B&B's or people having driven up there, cycle/lunch/cycle/tea etc buying fuel, snacks etc then a garden centre on the way home!

We do avoid very busy cafes, out of respect for other users but agree i don't bring home a potted plant!

The mess i see on Exmoor after a bank holiday is shocking, its clearly not just a few people who litter .

We have a lot of garden centres near us (not Peak District) and pre-covid we used to go to them regularly as cyclists. I am sure they are happy to sell lots of coffee, cake and occasional cooked breakfasts.

As for not going to busy places, isn't the money of someone on a bike as good as anyone else? I don't really get that argument. If it's busy it's because it's a nice place and I don't see that my mode of transport affects my entitlement to go there or that is disrespectful to go there if I happen to get there on a bike. However, that's probably for another thread, we are digressing somewhat.

@impostersong

I was hit by a cyclist go at a stupid speed (I was stationary). Nearly wrote off my car the damage was so bad. Where is their liability?! No insurance so not paying up despite fault being clear (police and ambulance attended scene). Still fuming about it now. I'm all for better regulation, insurance should be required.

A bike nearly wrote off your car? While the car wasn't moving? Pull the other one.

A bike nearly wrote off your car? While the car wasn't moving? Pull the other one.
Dont be ridiculous, insurance companies right off cars where the repairs are near the value of the car. So if its an older car it could easily be written off.
Its not just the bike hitting the car but a human body would fly off the bike and land on the car doing a lit more damage

Its so good to know that the cars value etc is considered so much more important than a cyclist life and injuries :(

If an older car, one less CO2 inefficient car off the roads.

Though i suspect its another "it never actually happened" posts.

Bluethrough, you are being ridiculous noe
If course it is plausible. If a cyclist went into a stationery car its their fault, not the drivers and should have be responsible for their own injuries and the damage to the car.

Also if its written off it doesnt mean its off the road. The insurance company pays out the value of the car and the owner can buy back at the damaged value then decide to drive it or not especially if the only damage is cosmetic .

Well I must have pissed off a driver today while cycling with 5 friends.

Car behind us on a bendy road, they managed to overtake after been stuck behind us for just over a minute. We waved thanks. She blasted the horn, passed us at speed 2ft away still blasting the horn and swerved towards us as she cut back in, passing the front rider by about 20cm.

Sadly none of us got her registration plate. She came close to killing us. Just because she was pissed off for waiting a minute. Drivers like that give drivers a bad name!

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

CovidCorvid.

Next time l go I’ll get a picture and upload it!

I live near the Peak District. It’s hugely popular with everyone. There is one particular road ( above Froggat) that always has masses of cyclists on it. It also has masses of cars.

It’s mayhem. Cars can’t get past due to the narrow road and the bends. Cycling club will stretch out so maybe15 or 20 people cycling. Some together, some apart and some ahead. And it causes huge tailbacks.

It’s even worse when cyclists are in the other side of the road. No one can get past at any point.

The logic that there wouldn't be traffic chaos if there were no cyclists also holds true if reversed.

There'd also be no chaos if there were no cars...

@CovidCorvid

Well I must have pissed off a driver today while cycling with 5 friends.

Car behind us on a bendy road, they managed to overtake after been stuck behind us for just over a minute. We waved thanks. She blasted the horn, passed us at speed 2ft away still blasting the horn and swerved towards us as she cut back in, passing the front rider by about 20cm.

Sadly none of us got her registration plate. She came close to killing us. Just because she was pissed off for waiting a minute. Drivers like that give drivers a bad name!

Very common for drivers to do this, an Olympic hopeful had her career wrecked by a driver, he was caught but it was of little consolation, she suffered a broken neck

similar thing happened to me 2 weeks ago, i didn't even hold this driver up but i did get the car on camera :) which went to the Police website set up for this.....

More an more cyclists are using helmet cams to catch this sort of driving, so anyone riding this who is a knob and a potential killer - take note.

There needs to be deterrent sentences for this sort of driving - 10 years inside & life driving ban... that would make the headlines and make drivers stop and think.