AIBU to think Maya scored a victory for common sense today?

[DancesWithTortoises]

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1402922169559044096?s=20

news.sky.com/story/maya-forstater-woman-who-lost-job-over-transgender-views-wins-appeal-against-employment-tribunal-12329249

The law just cannot be allowed to tell people what to think.

Hurrah for Maya!

I don't believe in gender identity, and my lack of belief is now protected. Therefore I don't have to agree to add anything to the word woman, when trying to include all women.

@CorvusPurpureus

I'm with Datun on this. 'Women' covers absolutely everybody who needs to use menstrual products.

I don't particularly mind if female, menstruating people who don't identify as women want to lobby manufacturers of these products to add something else to their marketing, but it's not for me to campaign for.

In fact, given that there's a clear plurality of views amongst biologically female people who don't identify themselves as women, it's not something I, as a woman who does not experience conflicting (or indeed any) gender identity, should be wading in on.

It's completely up to them to represent any additional wording they'd like to sanpro manufacturers.

This.

Pumper I have no idea why you always seek to have an argument.

It's always the same with you, I am GC but, then trying to be 'clever'.

Anyone who needs period products is an adult human female, a woman' .

If Trans men and non binary women are uncomfortable with that then they should choose which 'additional' language best meets their needs and lobby the manufacturers accordingly.

How about "Women and walruses", @Pumperthepumper, which is what you appear to be

Anyway, yay for Maya, and yay for common sense!

@WeeFae

Hurrah for Maya!

We won't be silenced.

But trans people can just shut up because it's one rule for us, another for them? She may have her job back but she still has no right to misgender people (if you read the full text). Good.

@LangClegsInSpace

This is really boring.

Yep

I do hope everyone has raised a glass of or [coffee] or even and had to celebrate Maya's victory today.

What an achievement. Case by case we are returning to a place where women can speak freely with the protection of the law. Yet another good day.

@lifeturnsonadime are you the poster who deliberately misunderstood my posts on the last thread?

In case you’re not; I couldn’t care less, but it’s not me who’s unhappy with the current set up of inclusive language. I’m trying to see where others will draw the line, and people seem to find that really difficult to answer. Aside from Datun, who was honest, but I think probably unrealistic. And to be unhappy for the rest of your life over the wording on period products seem to me like you should find some peace with it.

And in case you are that poster; do me a favour and don’t reply to me at all if you’re going to accuse me of saying things you know I didn’t say.

And when is it ok to misgender? As in say what reflects material reality?
When describing what your rapist did to you?
Or do we have to use she then
Already happened in court several times before we get 'it never happens

@ThursdayWeld

How about "Women and walruses", *@Pumperthepumper*, which is what you appear to be

Anyway, yay for Maya, and yay for common sense!

I don’t know what walrus means in this context.

I've never been of the opinion that the dehumanising language was to cater to transmen. Since when have adult human females managed to change great swathes of marketing, just on their say so.

Me neither, Datun, and as I've illustrated with a little bit of looking around today, some transmen definitely do find it to be dehumanising language.

I am bewildered that Pumper is trying to canvass our opinion on ever more ludicrous formulations, despite the quotes supplied.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

3.5 billion female humans on the planet. The only thing they all have in common is biology. Gender stereotypes aren't the same across the world or across time. Biology is. Incredible this should need to be stated.

Yes! This!

Looking at my pack of always pads it doesn’t say women or even mention periods yet I was still able to identify them as a thing I need. The picture with wings was the bit I needed to ensure I bought the right thing. Tampax is the same but it does say “gynaecologically tested”. So in short, why are you debating the sentence re sanitary products? There’s many things I do care about but this feels like an argument the sanitary producers have managed to get round looking at my bathroom cabinet.

And thank goodness for the Maya win which is the actual point of this thread.

The thing about it which was amazing for me which is when the Judge said something along the lines of it is particularly ridiculous that a view that followed the law of the land was ever considered a belief 'not worthy of respect in a democratic society' and then went on to say that only beliefs such as Nazism or totalitarianism could be considered such which directly dealt with the comparison made by the head of Stonewall on Twitter recently. (This is paraphrased but can be found at paragraph 111 of the judgement).

Hurrah!

@Datun

I don't believe in gender identity, and my lack of belief is now protected. Therefore I don't have to agree to add anything to the word woman, when trying to include all women.

I agree Datun. It's such a relief!

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

I've never been of the opinion that the dehumanising language was to cater to transmen. Since when have adult human females managed to change great swathes of marketing, just on their say so.

Me neither, Datun, and as I've illustrated with a little bit of looking around today, some transmen definitely do find it to be dehumanising language.

I am bewildered that Pumper is trying to canvass our opinion on ever more ludicrous formulations, despite the quotes supplied.

Ok. I’m asking a simple question that you seem desperate to avoid:

What will make you happy?

And if it’s the complete erasure of trans people in marketing, that’s very unlikely so are you going to be unhappy forever? Or are you going to find a middle ground?

@lifeturnsonadime

And thank goodness for the Maya win which is the actual point of this thread.

The thing about it which was amazing for me which is when the Judge said something along the lines of it is particularly ridiculous that a view that followed the law of the land was ever considered a belief 'not worthy of respect in a democratic society' and then went on to say that only beliefs such as Nazism or totalitarianism could be considered such which directly dealt with the comparison made by the head of Stonewall on Twitter recently. (This is paraphrased but can be found at paragraph 111 of the judgement).

Hurrah!

I agree. It’s an excellent judgement.

I don’t know what walrus means in this context

Oh for goodness sake - I meant sealion! Way to mess it up :doh:

You are a sealion, @Pumperthepumper

@Datun

Me personally? Just women.

Me too.

What is with the acknowledgment of trans people you keep on about Pumper?

Only one sex class of humans requires or will require period products, those of that sex class who chose to identify as men are still well aware of the biological reality of their sex are they desperate to have their identity acknowledged on a product that they are required to use due to their sex?

Simple straightforward language is required, language that is accessible to all and easily understood by all, the terms woman and girl have been used and their definitions understood by people all over the world for millennia it's self explanatory and clear for everyone.

pumper no I did not deliberately misinterpret your posts . This thread is not about you.

I don't know if you have a comprehension issue but people on here are clearly saying they don't care as long as the word women is included.

It is beyond me why you are getting hung up on this unless you are trying to somehow demonstrate how awfully transphobic we are being.

I am not going to engage in another pointless argument with you. This thread is not about you and your feelings it is about the Maya case.

But Pumper, as shown upthread, we've already seen there's a flaw with adding endless complicated words.
So it's now up to you who's suggesting we cater for all 60+ genders to come up with a solution.
That won't disadvantage the semi literate or English as a foreign language speakers.
So what do you propose having asked everyone else for a solution.

And if it’s the complete erasure of trans people in marketing, that’s very unlikely so are you going to be unhappy forever? Or are you going to find a middle ground?

I'm going to assume that all the period product marketing will just say woman, and make me happy forever.

@ThursdayWeld

I don’t know what walrus means in this context

Oh for goodness sake - I meant sealion! Way to mess it up :doh:

You are a sealion, @Pumperthepumper

I don’t understand this either. Do you want me to leave the thread?

I've answered it repeatedly. I want "women" on there. I want "women" to always be on there. I will not spend money with a company that I have seen refer to me in a demeaning way.

Various people do not want to be called "women". They want additional, alternative words. The formulation of the additional words is up to the trans community, not me.

@lifeturnsonadime

pumper no I did not deliberately misinterpret your posts . This thread is not about you.

I don't know if you have a comprehension issue but people on here are clearly saying they don't care as long as the word women is included.

It is beyond me why you are getting hung up on this unless you are trying to somehow demonstrate how awfully transphobic we are being.

I am not going to engage in another pointless argument with you. This thread is not about you and your feelings it is about the Maya case.

You accused me of not caring about people with autism who die of cervical cancer.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

I've answered it repeatedly. I want "women" on there. I want "women" to always be on there. I will not spend money with a company that I have seen refer to me in a demeaning way.

Various people do not want to be called "women". They want additional, alternative words. The formulation of the additional words is up to the trans community, not me.

That’s not the answer to the question though - will you be happy with literally any wording chosen by the trans community so long as ‘woman’ is also included?