AIBU to think Maya scored a victory for common sense today?

[DancesWithTortoises]

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1402922169559044096?s=20

news.sky.com/story/maya-forstater-woman-who-lost-job-over-transgender-views-wins-appeal-against-employment-tribunal-12329249

The law just cannot be allowed to tell people what to think.

Hurrah for Maya!

Congratulations Maya!

I donated to Maya's crowd funder. Looks like I'm on the right side of history now!!

Bravo Maya.

It honestly doesn't matter at this point whether anyone wants to shout "you're transphobic!" for not believing, or not. it's no different to anyone wanting to call me 'heretic' or tell me I'm a sinner who is going to hell for being gay. They're entitled to their belief. I'm entitled to not share it and have my own conflicting belief, the point is that we are required to be mutually tolerant. Which means not trying to enforce beliefs on others and punish refusal or failure to obey.

And those beliefs, either way, cannot be a reason to discriminate against someone, by treating them less favourably because they hold a faith based position that you don't.

So that's the end of DIAF/kerb stomping (who is actually unwell enough to imagine up this appalling stuff?)/ barbed wire baseball bats and other means to punish heretic females.

End of.

However it is also going to mean that female people who believe in a sex based reality will be unaccepting of mixed sex provision, and I can't see how they can be required to put aside their belief in this case either. Particularly as those beliefs will then come to include in addition the intersectionalities of faith, culture, trauma and disability.

That should be interesting.

The answer of course would be more mutual tolerance, which would be the creation of third spaces, and the respecting that some people born male need alternative mixed sex provision from male only facilities, while some female people need female only facilities. Mutual respect for everyone's needs and we're laughing.

When I've recovered from the fact that I'm "extremely unlikely" to see my 40th birthday @LivingInThe80s I'll gladly have a long conversation with you about my views on feminism, women and anything else you care to discuss.
As it is I don't hate women, I love them. That's why I want them to be able to live peacefully and happily without discrimination.

And not only that but has always been a woman.

I've often wondered about this re sports. If transwomen cyclists, for example, can have their victory recorded as a female record, what about Caitlyn Jenner. Was the decathlon gold medal won by a man or a woman and if it was a woman did she beat all the men?

Wonderful wonderful Maya
I still think it's utterly batshit that the entire understanding of the binary nature of mammalian reproduction is being called a belief!
#WomenWontWheesht

@LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag haha same here! I often refer to my DP as the best housewife a girl could ask for

Like others have said, I don't agree with your stance on this but I am glad you can express your opinions on the subject freely.

I hope whatever is going on, you are okay and safe.

LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag

@LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag

When I've recovered from the fact that I'm "extremely unlikely" to see my 40th birthday *@LivingInThe80s* I'll gladly have a long conversation with you about my views on feminism, women and anything else you care to discuss. As it is I don't hate women, I love them. That's why I want them to be able to live peacefully and happily without discrimination.

Sorry @LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag hope you’ve got some RL support just now

@LivingInThe80s you’ve made your point, this really isn’t a good look on you.

perhaps instead of just reading Sky news people should read the actual judgement - and particularly the bit where so called 'gender-critical' people are not free to behave in a discriminatory manner.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/60c1cce1d3bf7f4bd9814e39/Maya_Forstater_v_CGD_Europe_and_others_UKEAT0105_20_JOJ.pdf

Also I particularly like this bit where her views are compared to Christian homophobes '
Just as the legal recognition of Civil Partnerships does not negate the right of a person to believe that marriage should only apply to heterosexual couples, becoming the acquired gender
“for all purposes” within the meaning of GRA does not negate a person’s right to believe, like the Claimant, that as a matter of biology a trans person is still their natal sex. Both beliefs may
well be profoundly offensive and even distressing to many others, but they are beliefs that are and must be tolerated in a pluralist society.'

Can I first say - thank goodness for Maya! So weird that it had to be appealed in the first place.

Secondly can I say that don’t be frightened @LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag or other people’s! XX and XY chromosomes exist, biological sex exists, the earth is round. However that still means we can live in harmony and tolerance. Just respectfully.

And thirdly - what a lot of fantastic usernames in this thread! I feel like a dowdy boring poster by comparison.

@katrina11 It is not gender critical people who are the ones behaving in a discriminatory manner.

Well done that woman!

Thank goodness commonsense prevails and we don't have to lie to appease the small group who cannot face facts without having a tantrum

people should read the actual judgement - and particularly the bit where so called 'gender-critical' people are not free to behave in a discriminatory manner.

You assume they haven’t. And I don’t see that any of the posters on this thread would fall foul of this.
The GC feminists I know want the rights of trans people as trans people to be protected and upheld. Transwomen and transmen exist, are worthy of the same respect as everyone else and should not be subject to harassment. Believing in the reality of biological sex is not in conflict with that.

@LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag

Transphobia is arseholery therefore I have said nothing incorrect.

Understanding that biology is fact is not transphobic nor arseholery. It amazes me how many people can suspend reality in such a way.

@LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag
Sorry you’ve had bad news today. I hope you have the support you need.

@JeanClaudeVanDammit

people should read the actual judgement - and particularly the bit where so called 'gender-critical' people are not free to behave in a discriminatory manner.

You assume they haven’t. And I don’t see that any of the posters on this thread would fall foul of this.
The GC feminists I know want the rights of trans people as trans people to be protected and upheld. Transwomen and transmen exist, are worthy of the same respect as everyone else and should not be subject to harassment. Believing in the reality of biological sex is not in conflict with that.

Wheres the common ground though? I asked upthread and I don’t think anyone answered yet, what overlap would you be happy with?

particularly the bit where so called 'gender-critical' people are not free to behave in a discriminatory manner.

That goes both ways. Hopefully now the canceling / calling women to lose their jobs / death and rape threats towards women for believing in biological reality will now cease. As that certainly is serious harrassment.

No one wants the right to behave in a discriminatory manner

Trans people are not the only ones who suffer discrimination

People who believe sex is real are now protected against discrimination . Thanks maya

( I did read , it sounded like the judge was saying ffs this is not discrimination, it's not promoting discrimination , it's not pretending trans people don't exist and all other rubbish that is often spouted when people say biology is real )

@Helleofabore

Maybe this English Rugby definition that would have been influenced by Stonewall would be a good place to start. Stonewall have provided a great deal of support to that organisation to shape their policies.

'Female: a person who does not produce male levels of testosterone at puberty and adolescence'
England Rugby.

WTF! I'd not seen that one before. That's right up there with non-man.