'Joke' or HR matter?

[MapleSyrupMoose]

New name as I don't want this linked to my other posts.

I absolutely adore my job and can sometimes get a bit obsessive about new projects. Last week, I was up cycling in the wee hours of the morning, had a sudden idea, and sent an email to a colleague of mine (work email address) regarding this. He almost immediately sent a message to my personal phone number saying, 'Wow you're up early', followed by one saying, 'I don't know why women like you bother working, you could probably sell nudes online and make a fortune'. I ignored him. We had a teams meeting a few hours later and I largely ignored him too. He then sent a message saying, 'Come on, it's just a joke'!

Would I be overreacting if I reported this to HR? Or should I just take it as a 'joke' and move on? We're about the same age (20s but I'm not sure if that matters) in the same role.

I think the 'can't you take a joke', puts it more into 'report' camp.

It could be very educational for him. If he genuinely thinks that it's okay to speak to a work colleague like that, he needs a short, sharp, education - potentially a lesson he will never forget.

Btw I should have said my DH was once called in for disciplinary for racism.

It was completely made up and after months discovered. It was an awful, and I mean awful, process. BTW - he received a letter confirming ‘innocent’ post event but not one apology.

I’m not comparing with your example - a completely different scenario, as this man is certainly more guilty by a long way!!

But everyone is very quick to say make a formal complaint to HR.

You have the potential to ruin someone’s life.

As such I’d always think until after the weekend before making a report to HR, if you feel it is right to do so.

This isn't the same situation. OP can screencap the messages as proof.

ohtheplacesyougo she does not have the potential to ruin his life. It isn’t her fault. It isn’t her responsibility. It isn’t a false accusation. If his life is ruined (which it won’t be) then it is no one’s fault but his own. More men should have their lives ruined for this shit, then maybe they’d stop doing it and fewer women’s lives would be ruined instead.

However, if you do decide to report, be certain you are not in breach of anything either and re read your original message to make sure that however innocently you meant it, there's nothing in it that could also be misconstrued

I’m sorry - but in what way and what world could the OP have been asking for a comment like that?!

There's a lot more at stake than one rancid joke. It's the office culture.

So the question really is do you want to work somewhere with rampant misogyny and sexism or should that be stamped out wherever it raises it's ugly little head...?

Let it go OP, it was inappropriate for sure but fight your own battles - you look childish going to HR,

Why not just mention it to him and explain why you didn't see the funny side?

I'd rather stand up for myself than involve HR, personally.

Jesus some of these comments. Heaven forbid a man should take responsibility for, or suffer the consequences of, his own behaviour.

I hope none of you have sons you're passing your 'values' on to.

@LivingInThe80s

On what planet is that a 'joke'? It's a vile, sexist comment that suggest women should strip naked and sell themselves. It is meant to insult and humiliate and relegate the OP to being a whore. What he said is absolutely disgusting on any level. Go straight to HR. He should not be able to get away with it.

Yep.

No-one on the thread has been able to explain how this is in any way funny.

@LegoPirateMonkey

ohtheplacesyougo she does not have the potential to ruin his life. It isn’t her fault. It isn’t her responsibility. It isn’t a false accusation. If his life is ruined (which it won’t be) then it is no one’s fault but his own. More men should have their lives ruined for this shit, then maybe they’d stop doing it and fewer women’s lives would be ruined instead.

Exactly

There's nothing funny about this, you don't need to lighten up OP or think about his career or be flattered (WTF!) or any of the other apologist shite thats been posted on this thread.

It's unacceptable for him to speak to you like that, I would tell him so and I would also speak to HR. The consequences of that are on his own head.

My general rule with gross banter like this is I give the person the benefit of the doubt one time. (Some people may not mean any harm but are just terrible judges of a situation and just put their foot in their mouths.) I'd let him know simply and clearly that you don't appreciate the joke and ask him to refrain again. Don't get dragged into discussion or put in a position where you have to justify your position. Just state your position and move on. Then screenshot or save the comment.

If he takes heed and behaves respectfully in future, no worries. If he does something inappropriate again, report it to HR.

Why would it be ‘childish’ to go to HR to report sexual harassment?

HR

He’s threatened by your commitment and energy so tries to remind you that he still sees you through the prism of your sex. Oh, you had an idea? That’s cute, but why aren’t you showing me your tits instead? A joke my arse.

Yes, I sent an email saying, 'Was out cycling earlier today and thought of something. How about (possible solution to work problem)?' at 07:45. He has my personal number because we're in a WhatsApp group with a few other colleagues (it was supposed to be a Starbucks order group but it's been dead since I joined as I joined the company mid-pandemic but I was still added to it anyway).

I would approach HR and say you’ve been sent an inappropriate message by a peer to your personal work phone and can staff have some training about appropriate behaviour in the work place. I think that shows you won’t take shit and the company needs to know but also that you’re not looking to single this guy out. Not because he deserves to get away with it, but because raising it as a specific complaint comes with stress and hassle to you. Any more comments from him and straight to HR to complain about him specifically and you’ll have 2 pieces of evidence then.

I would tell him it’s inappropriate then report him. I would have said don’t report him if he apologised but the fact that he’s trying to make you out to be unreasonable by saying “it’s just a joke” shows a lack of judgment and respect.

Too many men get away with things like this because people tell women to “let it go”. Nope, we need to stand up for ourselves. He’s old enough to know better.

A few things about this would at least make me report it to my manager and depending on their response to HR. The fact that he says ‘women like you’ like you shouldn’t have or want a career because you can make easy money degrading yourself for the consumption of men. He doesn’t see you as his equal, you’re just another slag.

And then the fact that he tried to gaslight you by claiming his misogyny is somehow a joke, inferring that if you don’t find it funny you are boring and uptight, would tip me into a burning fury to the extent that I’d have to stitch him up.

@eaten

Report for the following reasons:

1. While both men and women sell nudes online, he only says women should be doing it. As someone said upthread, he wouldn't say this to his male colleague. This is sexism.

1. He singled you out in "women like you", which is sexualising you. He wouldn't have said this to a woman he found unattractive.

1. He could tell that you didn't like what you said but instead of handling the situation professionally and apologising, he complains that you can't take a joke, suggesting you are the one at fault.

1. It's inappropriate to be discussing porn at work (if it's not related to work).

I wouldn't waste my time and energy explaining to him what he did wrong or how he made me feel. Let HR do that.

Perfectly put

So, OP, you sent a friendly and professional email focused on work. He didn’t acknowledge the solution you were suggesting, took your number from a WhatsApp group chat and texted you to tell you that rather than doing your job you should be doing porn online instead. When you didn’t respond, he blamed you for not appreciating his ‘joke’ rather than apologising.

You’re blameless. He deserves to lose his job. There is nothing excusable about his behaviour at all.

I honestly don't know why you wouldn't report this?

LegoPirateMonkey, I like you.

@LampHat

It’s really fucking demeaning. “Women like you” indeed. I don’t know if it’s a clumsy attempt at flirting but he needs to be told, through the official HR channels, that it’s hugely inappropriate. In fact, you might be doing him a favour by reporting it so he never makes the same mistake again.

Surely the “women like you” was in reference to the fact Op was up in the “ wee small hours of the morning ” and not a reference to her looks or personality? Otherwise it doesn’t make sense as a comment.

Clearly he isn’t a morning person and is joking there’s an easier way to make a living. Do you think he’s actually wanting to see you naked on a website? That would be an HR matter.

I’m not a fan of commodification of woman at all ,can I just say. Only Fans can do one along with Love Island and the Daily Fail Sidebar of Shame.

@zoemum2006

I’d say “It was really unprofessional but I’ll cut you some slack. Once. Do it again and I’ll report you. Don’t test me on this.”

On reflection I think I'd do this too

I'm struggling to see what's funny about it too

@Summerfun54321

I would approach HR and say you’ve been sent an inappropriate message by a peer to your personal work phone and can staff have some training about appropriate behaviour in the work place. I think that shows you won’t take shit and the company needs to know but also that you’re not looking to single this guy out. Not because he deserves to get away with it, but because raising it as a specific complaint comes with stress and hassle to you. Any more comments from him and straight to HR to complain about him specifically and you’ll have 2 pieces of evidence then.

That's actually a decent compromise

And sorry, in the confines of behind a keyboard we can all be really strong and say report, inappropriate he should get fired. And of course he should. The reality in a workplace can be very different and the op could find herself on the end of ostracising behaviour or even just find the complaint not upheld and made to look a troublemaker. I'm not saying that's right or a reason not to report but you very much need to look at general culture. We don't know the nature of the op's role but her comments about uni would indicate its male dominated and misogynistic. Not a reason to stay silent but in her shoes I would be looking at the whole picture. We don't all have a personal responsibility to fight the cause sometimes the right thing is just to look out for ourselves.

A long time ago I knew of an employment tribunal case where the men in an office victimised a woman by putting salad cream and the like on her chair and spurted up the back of her jacket and would often say things that were highly inappropriate about her in her earshot. Totally vile. Management just dismissed it as normal office banter. She brought a claim but the negotiated settlement was derisory and really she lost out hugely due to loss of pension. None of the men were even disciplined. Thankfully we have moved on from this I hope.