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AIBU?

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Original poster

'Joke' or HR matter?

729 replies

MapleSyrupMoose · 09/06/2021 17:22

New name as I don't want this linked to my other posts.

I absolutely adore my job and can sometimes get a bit obsessive about new projects. Last week, I was up cycling in the wee hours of the morning, had a sudden idea, and sent an email to a colleague of mine (work email address) regarding this. He almost immediately sent a message to my personal phone number saying, 'Wow you're up early', followed by one saying, 'I don't know why women like you bother working, you could probably sell nudes online and make a fortune'. I ignored him. We had a teams meeting a few hours later and I largely ignored him too. He then sent a message saying, 'Come on, it's just a joke'!

Would I be overreacting if I reported this to HR? Or should I just take it as a 'joke' and move on? We're about the same age (20s but I'm not sure if that matters) in the same role.

OP posts:
Original poster
MapleSyrupMoose · 09/06/2021 22:20

Looking back, I think my main mistake here is that I should've probably let him know instantly that I felt it was inappropriate instead of freezing up and ignoring the message. I also wonder if I've let too much time pass that me saying anything to him now would just look like I've spent so long dwelling on a 'joke'. Oh well.

OP posts:
BakeOffRewatch · 09/06/2021 22:20

@MapleSyrupMoose

I've read the whole thread and it feels like shit but I don't think I'll be reporting him. Seems like there's a not insignificant chance that it may be viewed as a compliment/joke, and I cannot run the risk of being ostracised for it. People don't say it here but back in Uni, my peers were already joking about how women in our industry were mostly 'diversity hires' or 'using their sexuality to get to the top' and, seeing the bigger picture, I do agree with PP that this might be what I'll be up against if I do make a report. Thanks for all your time.
I work in a similar industry to you. Don’t compare professional standards to uni. Those men at university will have ditched those attitudes and so should you. It’s different at work, it’s about maintaining a professional environment that’s suitable for everyone. Your company won’t want this going on, it alienates good talent - report it as an incident, so they are aware. No need to go in all guns blazing. Threads like this can be detrimental. It would be much better to build a network of women in your industry to get a measure of how things are done. In my experience, companies appreciate the reports as it’s about maintaining image and an appealing workplace. If it’s a one off, it’ll be a word, if it’s part of a wider pattern of inappropriate behaviour they will deal with it.
RUTheShitploppeeOrShitplopper · 09/06/2021 22:21

No, just do it. It doesn't matter what he thinks.

RUTheShitploppeeOrShitplopper · 09/06/2021 22:21

That was to OP.

CorianderBee · 09/06/2021 22:22

@Raindropumbrella

Wouldn’t bother me. You probably could make more money selling images online
Maybe, but last time I checked not everyone wants to be a sex worker. We women have minds and abilities beyond our bodies ( I don't judge those who choose that path but it's not for everyone). Men could do it too for the gay market but you don't see people telling them they should do porn for men for money.

Plus the market is flooded anyway. 1% of those that try if make decent money. The rest fuck up their prospects and make about £500 total.

CorianderBee · 09/06/2021 22:23

@MapleSyrupMoose

Looking back, I think my main mistake here is that I should've probably let him know instantly that I felt it was inappropriate instead of freezing up and ignoring the message. I also wonder if I've let too much time pass that me saying anything to him now would just look like I've spent so long dwelling on a 'joke'. Oh well.
Nothing will change if we all keep allowing it. And uni is very different from work. It's pretty obviously sexually inappropriate.
RUTheShitploppeeOrShitplopper · 09/06/2021 22:24

Also doesn't matter how long you took. We all should be taking time to ponder actions anyway (Including him) rather than kneejerk reactions. @MapleSyrupMoose

Voice0fReason · 09/06/2021 22:26

@Rubbishatchoosingusernames

It's men like you who are the reason why behaviour like this must be reported. It's the only way you will ever learn to keep your stupid sexist comments to yourself.

If you really believed it was daft, then it wouldn't get him into trouble would it.

Kwackerly · 09/06/2021 22:27

I would talk to my line manager about this if nothing else. My organisation would definitely take this seriously- not surprised by the comments here minimising it though. I had a meeting last week where a woman referred to herself as having had a dumb blonde moment- it was called out by my director, and I was glad he did. It's not the 1970s now, thank the lord.

GlendaSugarbeanIsJudgingYou · 09/06/2021 22:27

You are perfectly entitled to take time and process your feelings about what happened, Maple.

The issue isn't how long it's been so don't go kicking yourself about that.

RiverSkater · 09/06/2021 22:31

It might be the first time he's said such sexist crap to you, but HR might have a file of similar complaints. I'd be surprised if he's always managed to suppress his misogynistic leanings.

I would report it to HR. Then he can explain the joke to them.

Nancydrawn · 09/06/2021 22:33

You are absolutely entitled to have taken your time.

You'd be fine to report him. If you don't want to, you'd also be fine to say, "This message really threw me. I want to to be clear with you that I don't think that's a joke, funny or otherwise. I have no desire to be sexualized in the workplace. Please don't do it again."

It might make things awkward. But that's not on you--that's on him. He made it awkward. He did the shitty thing. He fucked up. Not you. He has to own the awkwardness.

Next time you see him, be brisk and professional. He ought to be fucking ashamed of himself, and he ought to know better.

CorianderBee · 09/06/2021 22:34

@MagicSummer literally all of that consensual fun still happens. Compliments, but if flirting, hook ups after the party. Young people haven't shrivelled up into humourless creatures we just don't accept people joking about how we should be sex workers out of the blue... just because you're not a part of it doesn't mean youngsters aren't still getting off in the copy room and having a laugh.

ChateauMargaux · 09/06/2021 22:35

@maplesyrupmoose. Even if you don't report it, please do tell him that this blatant mysogny makes for an hostile workplace for women. Leave it at that, don't explain, don't apologise, don't engage further.

I am an engineer, graduated in 1995, am now a mother of three and things have not improved in the quarter of century since I graduated.

I still meet men who believe that equally educated women do not deserve to share a place at the table with men despite the fact that women in male dominated industries have had to fight against ingrained stereotypes and structural oppression to get there.

Find yourself a female and a male mentor in your company and discuss this with them. Find some female mentors and peers outside our of your company but in your industry. Surround yourself with people who you do not have to bite your tongue around. I attended an amazing forum recently for the pharmaceutical industry and it was really inspiring.

Brefugee · 09/06/2021 22:41

Disappointing that you're not getting this put on record, OP. If you think it's a one off and say nothing. And Barbara from accounts thinks what he sent her is a one off and she said nothing. Same with Sally from Logistics. And maybe Sue from sales... and one day you're all chatting and you realise he's done this "one off" to others. And he's young and getting away with it so is he going to stop? is he fuck. But his next lot of messages maybe to subordinates who aren't old enough and ugly enough to put a stop to it.

Ok I am going to tell you young people about how life was in the 80s in an office environment.

Oh do fuck off. In the 80s we were more likely to be paid less, to never get promoted, not to get jobs anyway because we'd be running off to have babies, And all of us knew to warn the new women about Dave from Dispatch who makes lewd comments and gets handsy at the christmas party.

Now I'm not young so i wouldn't have got this text. But if that came to me? in our next team meeting i'd mention to everyone that I'd had this idea and run it by a colleague (as yet unnamed) and that I'd been a bit confused by his answer and could anyone help me with it - powerpoint slide with screenshot of his messages. And then I'd have escalated it via the manager to HR so that there was a record of it.

"ruin his life" my arse. This is the thin end of the wedge leading to the slippery slope of everyday sexism leading to women being harassed and worse in the workplace. And it has to stop.

YoBeaches · 09/06/2021 22:47

Ask yourself this...

Would he say it to a man?

No.

So why does he think it's ok to say it to you?

Report to HR. He needs educating.

TatianaBis · 09/06/2021 22:49

@MapleSyrupMoose

Looking back, I think my main mistake here is that I should've probably let him know instantly that I felt it was inappropriate instead of freezing up and ignoring the message. I also wonder if I've let too much time pass that me saying anything to him now would just look like I've spent so long dwelling on a 'joke'. Oh well.
Don’t worry about it. You will know for next time.

You showed your feelings by ignoring him. He probably knows he crossed a line hence the justification of it as a joke.

Unsure33 · 09/06/2021 22:50

I still think you should say something .

Just send a message saying ,” I have not replied before because I was quite frankly shocked at your comment and even more annoyed that you excused it as a joke . Just for the record I found what you said. Offensive and inappropriate and if you say something like that to me again I will report to HR . Hopefully this is clear enough for you . I don’t expect or want any reply from you . Just don’t do it again .”

lakesummer · 09/06/2021 22:54

It would be much better to build a network of women in your industry to get a measure of how things are done

This is sensible advice and you could consider trying to find a senior female mentor.

TriteMale · 09/06/2021 23:01

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Taikoo · 09/06/2021 23:04

Speak to HR.

WineIsMyMainVice · 09/06/2021 23:10

HR Manager here - I would give him the benefit of the doubt for this one time only. But you need to make him aware that this made you feel uncomfortable and you don’t want such comments in the future, thank you very much!!! If he says anything like that again, then it’s completely unacceptable and should definitely be reported.
If you do it via email you have a trail, but if you decide to say it verbally make a note of the date and time that you said it to him, just in case.
You don’t have to put up with this from a colleague.

KarmaStar · 09/06/2021 23:11

Backhanded compliment that came out all wrong.Don't go causing trouble with HR simply tell him you found it inappropriate.

ChateauMargaux · 09/06/2021 23:12

@TriteMale You are missing the fact that you are male and have centuries of male domination of money power and share of voice in your favour whereas the OP is female, in a male dominated industry where even before she left university she was under the impression that females are considered to be token gestures towards imposed equality targets and that the power balance in sexual relations is skewed against females. You have the weight of many more males on your side, people won't assume you make the tea or are the secretary when you walk into a meeting, people are less likely to talk over you, explain things to you that you already know, take your ideas as their own, or assume that you are only doing this until you have babies and then will do what every women does and stay at home while men have to pick up the slack for part time women and maternity leave... it really is not the same!!

Goldieloxx · 09/06/2021 23:30

HR definitely, if women don't collectively stand up to this type of behaviour it is considered acceptable and disempowers every other women in the workplace