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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

'Joke' or HR matter?

729 replies

MapleSyrupMoose · 09/06/2021 17:22

New name as I don't want this linked to my other posts.

I absolutely adore my job and can sometimes get a bit obsessive about new projects. Last week, I was up cycling in the wee hours of the morning, had a sudden idea, and sent an email to a colleague of mine (work email address) regarding this. He almost immediately sent a message to my personal phone number saying, 'Wow you're up early', followed by one saying, 'I don't know why women like you bother working, you could probably sell nudes online and make a fortune'. I ignored him. We had a teams meeting a few hours later and I largely ignored him too. He then sent a message saying, 'Come on, it's just a joke'!

Would I be overreacting if I reported this to HR? Or should I just take it as a 'joke' and move on? We're about the same age (20s but I'm not sure if that matters) in the same role.

OP posts:
Rosebel · 09/06/2021 20:57

I'd just take it as a joke. I work with slightly more men than women and I can imagine the younger ones (20s) saying stuff like this but it would be a joke.
Don't report if it's a one off. Presumably he got the message that you didn't like it. If he does something similar you can report (I wouldn't bother) but I'd wait and see if he made a bad judgement with the joke or if he's actually trying to piss you off.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 09/06/2021 20:57

@MapleSyrupMoose

I've read the whole thread and it feels like shit but I don't think I'll be reporting him. Seems like there's a not insignificant chance that it may be viewed as a compliment/joke, and I cannot run the risk of being ostracised for it. People don't say it here but back in Uni, my peers were already joking about how women in our industry were mostly 'diversity hires' or 'using their sexuality to get to the top' and, seeing the bigger picture, I do agree with PP that this might be what I'll be up against if I do make a report. Thanks for all your time.
So sorry OP. That's absolute shit, but completely understandable where you are coming from. Thanks
lakesummer · 09/06/2021 20:58

It is really shit OP.

Some industries are better than others.

I guess at least you know to block him on your personal mobile and not socialize with him.

LivingInThe80s · 09/06/2021 21:00

I KNEW the OP would not report. I knew it! Sad Angry So he'll now continue to say it to other women now he has been emboldened. Nothing changes if women don't have the guts to take a stand. It's letting us all down.

LegoPirateMonkey · 09/06/2021 21:01

I completely sympathise @MapleSyrupMoose and I wish you weren’t made to feel this way but I do understand. Maybe block this guy’s number so he can’t contact you through any private channels, take a screenshot just in case anything else happens and ignore him as much as you can. I’m so sorry you’ve read some disgusting, minimising, victim blaming comments on this thread. I wish people weren’t like that.

This thread is making me think of Promising Young Woman when the rapist says ‘it’s every man’s worst nightmare to be accused’ and she asks him what he thinks every woman’s worst nightmare might be.

I hope you don’t experience any further harassment from this creep and please don’t let it tarnish your love of your job. Good luck.

CoffeeandCakeEqualsLove · 09/06/2021 21:02

That's really shit OP, but I do understand your reasoning unfortunately.

I would suggest screenshot/saving the message though. If it does keep happening and you decide you do want to report

GlendaSugarbeanIsJudgingYou · 09/06/2021 21:02

I'm sorry to hear that, Maple.

Please don't let this set you back. Don't stop putting forth your ideas.

Ugh, such fuckery.

RosesAndHellebores · 09/06/2021 21:04

HR report is likely to go like this.

OP and chap are work colleagues and a professional relationship has crossed a boundary. OP gave chap her personal mobile number. OP was engaged in an upcycling project before work and shared what she was doing with chap. Chap responded to her personal email address with a comment that could be regarded as lewd (need details of upcoming here - was the op upcycling roman statues - my first thought was that she was upcycling something to do with nudes - which is what attracted the comment)

Reference to Dignity at work and Professional Boundaries training.

Recommendations: E&D training for chap. Clarity to be provided to both parties about sharing personal contact details and using work email for private matters. No sanction arising in all likelihood so nothing on record.

OP's complaint will fracture the relationship and cause an atmosphere in the office. One of them will end up leaving.

OP - screenshot and keep. Tell him he was inappropriate, that you have a screenshot and you wish for the relationship to be entirely professional moving forwards. And don't give work colleagues your personal number in future. Or have them on Facebook - linked in at a push.

ragged · 09/06/2021 21:05

I like very much what @gobackanddoitproperly said.

It's light outside at 4am right now #Insomniacs of the world unite.

hettie · 09/06/2021 21:06

There is a middle ground between reporting him and ignoring him....If you have decided to not report then you need to assertively communicate that this was not ok
Do this in person and then follow it up with a clarifying email. If you are not a natural assertive communicator, google it and watch some TED talks or take some advice. It is an essential skill and will be particularly essential with mysoginictic dicks like this

RUTheShitploppeeOrShitplopper · 09/06/2021 21:06

OP, you don't need to take it as a joke neither do you have to report. You do need to tell him off about it, either politely or sternly (you decide) via text or email (for paper trail), then leave it at that. I'd also store the text he sent just in case.

I don't think this course of action would get you ostracised, if that's your fear.

littlepieces · 09/06/2021 21:06

It's a joke but totally inappropriate. Make sure he knows it. Some guys think it's funny to push these kinds of jokes at work at the moment to get a reaction.

Ninkanink · 09/06/2021 21:07

@LivingInThe80s

I KNEW the OP would not report. I knew it! Sad Angry So he'll now continue to say it to other women now he has been emboldened. Nothing changes if women don't have the guts to take a stand. It's letting us all down.
Don’t make it OP’s problem.

She’s acting in a rational way given the many shitty comments she’s had here.

It’s a man’s world and don’t you forget it. If it’s ever going to change it will require men to change it, not women.

Utterly stupid men running around thinking with their penises and expecting us all to be okay with it.

Flowers to you @MapleSyrupMoose

LegoPirateMonkey · 09/06/2021 21:07

@RosesAndHellebores she sent a work email. She referenced in that email having come up with the work idea while cycling (not upcycling, nothing to do with nudes???). He took her number from a work WhatsApp group, she didn’t give it to him.

Ninkanink · 09/06/2021 21:08

@hettie

There is a middle ground between reporting him and ignoring him....If you have decided to not report then you need to assertively communicate that this was not ok Do this in person and then follow it up with a clarifying email. If you are not a natural assertive communicator, google it and watch some TED talks or take some advice. It is an essential skill and will be particularly essential with mysoginictic dicks like this
Yes agree with this.

He needs to be told.

tigger1001 · 09/06/2021 21:09

@LegoPirateMonkey

I am trying to understand how anyone who has ever been in a workplace can think that someone sending a work-related email outlining a solution to a problem can be replied to with a text suggesting they sell naked photos of themselves online instead of working and this is either a joke or a compliment? How can that be?

Imagine sending the email - enthusiastic about your job, keen to solve a problem. And having that ignored and being told you should be getting your tits out instead for money. Why would anyone feel amused or flattered by that?

And why on Earth should the man get away with it?

Totally agree!

It's beyond inappropriate.

I wouldn't feel comfortable working closely with someone who did that to me. And the fact the response was not sent via email tells me a lot.

GlendaSugarbeanIsJudgingYou · 09/06/2021 21:11

Oh, be quiet, LivingInThe80s.

You sound ridiculous. The OP has had enough crap to deal with.

lakesummer · 09/06/2021 21:11

@LivingInThe80s what is letting us down is a societal culture that means OP can't be certain of a positive response if she reports him.

What is letting us down are the men and women on this thread who have minimized what this bloke has done and suggested OP can't take a joke.

What is letting us down are the kind of parents, we saw an example in here who don't really have a problem with their sons behaving like this.

OP isn't letting us down, we as a society have let her down.

littlepieces · 09/06/2021 21:11

Ps. I think this kind of thing should be reported to HR, but HR never give a toss.

Rubbishatchoosingusernames · 09/06/2021 21:15

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Bloodyfuckit · 09/06/2021 21:17

@lalamo

That said I probably wouldn't go to HR unless he did it again. But I would also make sure I was never alone with him.
So you'd change your behaviour, despite having done nothing wrong, rather than him having to change his behaviour?
minou123 · 09/06/2021 21:18

Im sorry you feel like you can't report it, but I understand.

It just goes to show we still aren't at a place where women are believed.

However, i just wanted to share 2 of my experiences with you.

One is work related, one non work related.

Work related: Similar to you, I had to talk to 5 male colleagues about a project.

I went to thier office and after the work chat, they began to ask me incredibly inappropriate sexual questions. They were laughing and rapidly firing sexually harassing questions.
It felt like forever, but really it was only for a minute. I didn't say a word, and walked out.
MY manager really encouraged me to report.
And I'm pleased I did.

They didn't lose thier jobs - and nor did I want them to. They did have to apologise professionally and without "it was just a joke" rubbish.

HR took it very seriously.
The men did go around and tell people what happened, I kept my mouth shut.
Each and everyone they told was on my side and told them so.

Non work related: I started a thread on mumsnet for this one.
Months after fitting new flooring in my house, the flooring guy sent me sexually harassing whats app messages.
He had my number as we needed to arrange date/time for the new flooring.
I would say 99% of the posters on my thread encouraged me to report to the police.
I did.
Im pleased I did.
The police took it very seriously.

He was invited in for interview and did the whole "it was a joke, i was drunk...blag blah blah".
He was cautioned and told never to contact me again.

I just hope my experiences show you there are people out there who do believe you, take it seriously, deal with it appropriately and will never make you feel bad/ostracised for reporting sexual harassment.

daisychain01 · 09/06/2021 21:20

@MagicSummer

Ok I am going to tell you young people about how life was in the 80s in an office environment. There were men and women and we all interacted - we flirted - men might have told us we looked nice today, or our hair was nice and we made flirty comments back We had fun at Christmas parties with the odd kiss in the stationery cupboard and so on. Do you know what - it was FUN! I am so fed up with the sourpusses which seem to inhabit our planet now who can't take a joke (and deal with it, as we did - there are plenty of ways of shaming an over-familiar man). It was all very innocent - at least we didn't jump into bed with every man who crossed our path! Lighten up, will you.
Yeah and I bet all the women were secretaries and all the men were managers.

And it was the men who had the last laugh because they got the promotions, the bonuses and the pay rises and the women who would have to toddle off and make them a cup of tea, get patted on the bum while the men laugh to each other about that "nice bit of skirt" while the women were typing up their memos to further their careers.

And you think that was fun? You're obviously a glutton for punishment. Just as well there are a lot more of us around now who want to be taken seriously and treated as equals, and aren't prepared to be patronised by some twattish Jack the lad harking back to the 1980's - his misogynistic father obviously taught him everything he knows.
.

CorianderBee · 09/06/2021 21:20

Nope, HR. Misogynistic and sexual.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 09/06/2021 21:22

What would a positive response look like?

Being believed. Being taken seriously. Acknowledgement that is not appropriate. Apology. Respect.Maybe even some training. That's the bare minimum. That's what we expect. How dare we?

OP is not confident she'd even get that, or worse be the one that gets affected. That just shows how male centred and damaging a lot of work environments are.