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Original poster

'Joke' or HR matter?

729 replies

MapleSyrupMoose · 09/06/2021 17:22

New name as I don't want this linked to my other posts.

I absolutely adore my job and can sometimes get a bit obsessive about new projects. Last week, I was up cycling in the wee hours of the morning, had a sudden idea, and sent an email to a colleague of mine (work email address) regarding this. He almost immediately sent a message to my personal phone number saying, 'Wow you're up early', followed by one saying, 'I don't know why women like you bother working, you could probably sell nudes online and make a fortune'. I ignored him. We had a teams meeting a few hours later and I largely ignored him too. He then sent a message saying, 'Come on, it's just a joke'!

Would I be overreacting if I reported this to HR? Or should I just take it as a 'joke' and move on? We're about the same age (20s but I'm not sure if that matters) in the same role.

OP posts:
expat101 · 09/06/2021 20:23

“Wee small hours” in your original post is going to be the basis for my answer and that would have been the presumption, as it was his private time, he was affected by alcohol or drugs and replied inappropriately.

No argument from me that his comments were gross and not what you should be receiving from a work colleague at all.

However having said that, I do not believe it’s acceptable to be contacting work colleagues outside of working hours on their private devices for this very reason.

It’s blurring the lines between professional conduct and personal, and how a person conducts themselves rightly or wrongly, as in this case.

People are entitled to switch off mentally from work and drop their guard in their private time and I completely acknowledge in this case, he went too far with his reply. It’s likely he might have thought at the time it was clever and funny and we know it wasn’t.

I suspect he is now deeply embarrassed in the light of day and making a hash of trying to back peddle.

I don’t think your HR person has a right to formally reprimand him for outside of hours behaviour. They could perhaps counsel and guide on the inappropriateness of the response.

However HR would need to address the issue of you contacting him outside of work hours with a non urgent work related matter too.

By all means make your displeasure known, but I would not be seeking his dismissal.

In future work stays within work hours for everyone.

mbosnz · 09/06/2021 20:24

Thing is, the person that potentially is jeopardising his career by his actions, is the male. He's the one getting himself into hot water by his workplace hostile actions. His actions, his consequences.

It's on him.

Maybe he needs to check his privilege, his forum, and his actions? Rather than assuming that 'the wimmens' will make allowances, cos, bless 'im, he's just a lad, he doesn't mean it, does he?'

It doesn't matter how shit he treats this girlie at work, or makes her feel - will nobody think of the blokes?

It was just a bit of bant's weren't it?

lakesummer · 09/06/2021 20:25

Excellent, finally someone who can explain how this comment was a joke.

What exactly about this comment is meant to be funny?

What is funny about suggesting to a work colleague they should be doing online porn instead of their professional job?

mbosnz · 09/06/2021 20:25

Work hours, in our company, encompasses 6.00am to 11.00pm, due to global time zones.

rookiemere · 09/06/2021 20:25

But @expat101 OP sent an email from her work email address to another work email address. It's irrelevant what time she sent it as presumably did not expect a response unless her colleague was working.
For him to then move off from work email to send a degrading sexist message via Whatsapp shows exactly who is in the wrong, not OP who can send work emails whenever she pleases provided she doesn't expect an instant response.

Clymene · 09/06/2021 20:25

Men just need to stop doing this kind of shit in the workplace. Women will never be treated as equal if workplaces continue to pat men on the head when they sexually harass women.

@Rubbishatchoosingusernames I hope one of the women you employ pursues you for a ruinously expensive sexual harassment case. Men like you shouldn't be employers. You're incompetent and are a big part of the problem.

Ninkanink · 09/06/2021 20:26

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LampHat · 09/06/2021 20:28

@expat101 it was 7.45am on work email. Not 3am on Tinder.

prh47bridge · 09/06/2021 20:31

As a man, I disagree with Rubbishatchoosingusernames. It may have been meant as a joke, but it was wildly inappropriate. It is also possible that it was an attempt to flirt, but it was still wildly inappropriate. I would never say that to a work colleague. Indeed, I wouldn't even say it to any of the women I've known as friends. I can only think of one who wouldn't have found it inappropriate.

What would I do about it if I were the OP? My reaction may be different as I am a man, but I certainly wouldn't treat it as a joke. I'm not sure I'd report it to HR, but, if I didn't, I would certainly make it clear that his message was inappropriate and unwelcome, and that any repetition would result in a report to HR.

TatianaBis · 09/06/2021 20:31

Wee small hours” in your original post is going to be the basis for my answer and that would have been the presumption, as it was his private time, he was affected by alcohol or drugs and replied inappropriately.

At 7.45 in the morning?!

LegoPirateMonkey · 09/06/2021 20:32

Oh, now that a man has come along to point out that refusing to tolerate sexual harassment is ‘daft’ and ‘nuts’ I feel really silly. I’m sure it’s fine for male colleagues to tell his wife and daughter they’d be better doing porn than any other job and god forbid his son ever have to face any consequences for poor behaviour. This bloke on the internet clearly has a much more comprehensive understanding of sexism, misogyny and harassment in the workplace than we do and I’m so relieved to hear that it’s all fine, men can say what they like and we should all laugh along with it or we’ll only make ourselves look silly. Sounds like a great father and employer there!

lottiegarbanzo · 09/06/2021 20:32

I have to say that, especially at your age, I would have been freaked out by this. It would have made me wonder how many other male colleagues viewed me as a sex object who'd strayed into their workplace, rather than a professional and a colleague.

I'd have copied and sent it straight to HR / my boss and told them that it had made me feel very uncomfortable. (I have a great sense of humour btw but that only applies to things that are funny).

I would ask that my personal phone number not be shared with colleagues too and remove myself from that group. If they need me to use a phone for work, they can provide a work phone.

I am pleased to say that nothing remotely like this ever did happen to me when I was your age, in the 90s. I would have been shocked and would have wondered what decade the sender thought he lived in (1970s?) then.

expat101 · 09/06/2021 20:32

@rookiemere

But *@expat101* OP sent an email from her work email address to another work email address. It's irrelevant what time she sent it as presumably did not expect a response unless her colleague was working. For him to then move off from work email to send a degrading sexist message via Whatsapp shows exactly who is in the wrong, not OP who can send work emails whenever she pleases provided she doesn't expect an instant response.
It troubles me that the WhatsApp group exists to start with, as again it’s blurring the lines between professionalism and private.

I suspect their private devices are receiving alerts from both company emails, WhatsApp and their own private life apps.

Should he has done it, certainly not. No argument there from me. But people need to be allowed to switch off “in the wee small hours”.

Maybe a new company policy should come out of this that employees private devices are not used for company business purposes?

lakesummer · 09/06/2021 20:33

To be fair the 7:45 clarification came in a later post.
I had thought the bloke was probably drunk at first, not that it made it ok.

Nocutenamesleft · 09/06/2021 20:33

@LegoPirateMonkey

ohtheplacesyougo she does not have the potential to ruin his life. It isn’t her fault. It isn’t her responsibility. It isn’t a false accusation. If his life is ruined (which it won’t be) then it is no one’s fault but his own. More men should have their lives ruined for this shit, then maybe they’d stop doing it and fewer women’s lives would be ruined instead.
Absolutely agree!!
TatianaBis · 09/06/2021 20:34

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Viviennemary · 09/06/2021 20:35

Definition of the wee hours. The very early hours of the morning. Between 1 am and 4 am. Not 7.45 am. Totally misleading.

expat101 · 09/06/2021 20:35

@TatianaBis

Wee small hours” in your original post is going to be the basis for my answer and that would have been the presumption, as it was his private time, he was affected by alcohol or drugs and replied inappropriately.

At 7.45 in the morning?!

That time frame was given in the op’s later response...
idliketoteachtheworldtosing · 09/06/2021 20:35

If you think it was meant as a joke and he has said it was one. seriously think about what the consequences for him would be and also for you, is it worth causing potential animosity within your office environment?
Some people have a strange sense of humour but do not intend it to be malicious, if he lost his job through it the knock on effect could be devastating and worst case scenario is he could hurt himself and I'm sure you wouldn't want that on your conscience.
I would let him know that you don't find that sort of thing funny and draw a line under it.
Obviously if it happens again then that is different because you have already spoken to him about it, I think some people are far too uptight these days and whilst sexual harassment is not ok there is a difference between harassment and making a off the cuff comment or joke which isn't intended to offend. I guess what you need to decide is it worth the potential shitstorm it could create because you will have those who say it is harassment and those who will say that you have completely overreacted and as you say how much you love your job it would be awful if the atmosphere turned, I've seen it happen and it's not pleasant.
Good luck with whatever you decide

expat101 · 09/06/2021 20:36

@lakesummer

To be fair the 7:45 clarification came in a later post. I had thought the bloke was probably drunk at first, not that it made it ok.
Agree.
TatianaBis · 09/06/2021 20:36

It troubles me that the WhatsApp group exists to start with, as again it’s blurring the lines between professionalism and private.

It troubles you that a Whatsapp group was formed to organise getting coffee?

You do realise we are now governed via WhatsApp?

IdblowJonSnow · 09/06/2021 20:36

HR.
To the posters saying they can see the 'funny' side, I'm wondering what that is. Confused

TatianaBis · 09/06/2021 20:37

@expat101

That time frame was given in the op’s later response...

So RTFT before you post.

LegoPirateMonkey · 09/06/2021 20:37

It’s fine to send a work related email from and to a work email address at 7.45am (unless the company has a policy against this). Employees shouldn’t have their work email pinging notifications on their personal phones. I have to email people in American offices regularly and we understand that we will be sending them at antisocial hours for the recipient but we won’t be expecting it to be read and responded to until they are in their work hours. The OP has done nothing wrong in sending an email before 9am to his work email address.

rookiemere · 09/06/2021 20:37

@expat101 if people choose to have email on their own phones then they also choose when to read it or not read it.

Perhaps the company does need to do something, but it certainly doesn't make sexist remarks any more acceptable nor does the OP deserve any censure for coming up with ideas in her free time and emailing them.

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