'Joke' or HR matter?

[MapleSyrupMoose]

New name as I don't want this linked to my other posts.

I absolutely adore my job and can sometimes get a bit obsessive about new projects. Last week, I was up cycling in the wee hours of the morning, had a sudden idea, and sent an email to a colleague of mine (work email address) regarding this. He almost immediately sent a message to my personal phone number saying, 'Wow you're up early', followed by one saying, 'I don't know why women like you bother working, you could probably sell nudes online and make a fortune'. I ignored him. We had a teams meeting a few hours later and I largely ignored him too. He then sent a message saying, 'Come on, it's just a joke'!

Would I be overreacting if I reported this to HR? Or should I just take it as a 'joke' and move on? We're about the same age (20s but I'm not sure if that matters) in the same role.

@LegoPirateMonkey

There is a really insidious idea that women are somehow privileged to be able to make money from stuff like onlyfans and that it’s completely normal. Men making comments like that are showing how they think of women and a woman’s role in the workplace. The kind of stuff done to women in pornography is degrading, humiliating torture. It’s conditioning men to see women in a really disturbing light. The fact that he’s normalised it enough in his head to think this is an ok thing to say to a colleague, that he can laugh it off as a ‘joke’ is grim. I worry so much especially for teenage girls and younger women entering further education or work to be encountering this attitude all the time, that tells them they should be taking off their clothes and sticking things up themselves for men’s entertainment and that this makes them lucky and they should be grateful for the opportunity and stop taking up men’s places and men’s jobs. Sometimes I feel like we haven’t made any progress at all. It’s deeply depressing.

And yes, by the way, this should absolutely be reported to HR and he should be embarrassed enough to never do it again. What a fucking creep.

I agree 100% with this. This guy is so warped by porn that he sees porn everywhere. Even when he's in a professional job, receiving emails about a work project from a colleague, he considers the women around him to be just wank toys. It's not a joke. There's nothing funny about it. He's a creep.

Please report to HR. He needs to know he can't do this and it needs to be on record.

If you're not going to go to HR at least make him squirm. Ask him to explain the joke because you don't get it. Ask him what he meant by 'women like you' put him on the spot. Hopefully it will be excruciatingly uncomfortable when he's forced to face his demeaning and insulting comment

Inappropriate comment, inappropriate to message your personal phone. I would tell him so directly, and if it happens again, report to HR.

@Notmoresugar

He meant it as a compliment although it was inappropriate.

I wouldn't want to get him into trouble over it.

But, if he carries on saying things in the same manner, I would warn him and if he carries on after that, I would report him.

It's not in any way ,shape or form a compliment.

It reduces OP to just her body, how she looks and how she can make money out of that.

Never mind ambition,brains, achievements, or even OP as a person. She's good enough for sex work! What an achievement!

Winter of discontent, how does getting up early link to nude photos?! It just doesn't. If anything, he might be referring to her exercise routine discipline keeping OP fit and therefore worthy to be the focus of sleazy male attention, which he obviously thinks is the sole reason she would do it.

They are colleagues on an equal footing in the same team. She is focussed on work and sending a professional message to a colleague's work email: he instantly switches to a personal number (proof, if any were needed, that he knew he was being unprofessional) and ignores her work idea, disrespects her professionality, and degrades her to the status of wannabe nude model.

He's basically saying, forget talking about work and your ideas - I'm fantasising about you with nothing on and your brain has nothing to do with it.

His attitudes are toxic!

That idea will show up in a future meeting as his own - guaranteed - and he will take full credit.

He will probably be up for promotion before OP is bc gender inequality.

He needs reporting if OP isn't to be left in his bulldust as his career accelerates past hers.

Yes, FrenchieFromGrease he’s utterly pornsick and needs to be made aware that women are human beings.

WTAF, highly inappropriate in so many ways, I'm gobsmacked anyone would think this is an acceptable joke

Totally inappropriate, and he knew that hence why he deliberately messaged your personal phone instead of sending the same thing to your work email.

It’s totally demeaning.

I would 100% report it, until more women do this men are going to get away with inappropriate behaviour.

Why are you sending out messages in the middle of the night. To work colleagues.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

After I had sicked into my mouth a bit at his comment, I'd respond telling him how inappropriate it was. His response would then dictate how I proceeded. Genuine apology and an acceptance that he crossed the line - I'd forget it but keep any eye on future conversations. Refusal to accept it was inappropriate - straight to HR.

Dear, do get a grip.

@Ohtheplacesyougo

Btw I should have said my DH was once called in for disciplinary for racism.

It was completely made up and after months discovered. It was an awful, and I mean awful, process. BTW - he received a letter confirming ‘innocent’ post event but not one apology.

I’m not comparing with your example - a completely different scenario, as this man is certainly more guilty by a long way!!

But everyone is very quick to say make a formal complaint to HR.

You have the potential to ruin someone’s life.

As such I’d always think until after the weekend before making a report to HR, if you feel it is right to do so.

@Ohtheplacesyougo

You have the potential to ruin someone’s life

And THIS is EXACTLY the kind of guilt trip and silencing of victims that caused children who have been sexually abused and women who have been abused/assaulted/raped to not report.

No wonder women are too afraid to come forward when they are SILENCED like this. You should be truly ashamed of yourself, Ohtheplacesyougo.

What he said is absolutely awful. I handle these types of cases every day. This won’t be the first or last time he does this kind of thing! Please raise the issue to HR. He majorly crossed a line. He hasn’t apologised and actually tried to downplay what he said.

Asshole. He’s be straight into a disciplinary and most likely on a final written warning, or if there are other previous concerns, he would be out the door!

@Viviennemary

Why are you sending out messages in the middle of the night. To work colleagues.

Why are posting when you haven’t even read the OP’s posts?

7.45 am is not the middle of the night.

@Viviennemary

Why are you sending out messages in the middle of the night. To work colleagues.

She sent it at 7:45am. How is that the 'middle of the night', @Viviennemary ?

And even if you do send a work-related email in the middle of the night (and most people with office jobs have some flexibility now, and some people are just night owls), it's not a reason or a justification for making a work conversation sexual.

Being up at 3am doesn't make you DTF.

You'll probably get loads of Cool Girls and men telling you to get a sense of humour but tbh, that's a pretty inappropriate way to treat a colleague. Don't report it for now, but I definitely would consider it if he keeps making comments like this.

The wee hours in my understanding is around 3 am.

Where I work, anywhere from 6am is normal time for emailing. A lot of people start work at 8 so there's nothing weirdly early about the time the OP emailed.

Deal with it yourself
Think of the consequences for a good man

Nothing changed really has it

I’d report to HR

The ‘you have the potential to ruin a man’s life’ thing is a particularly vicious and hateful myth.

1.5% of reported rapes are charged. Rape is illegal and rape genuinely can and does ruin women’s lives, all the time. But for every 99 rapes committed, only one will be prosecuted. False accusations are extremely rare.

Rape exists in a culture which seeks to excuse and minimise it at every turn. A culture which values women for their sexual appeal above all else and demeans and dehumanises them (why do you have a job, you could just do porn). A culture which tells women they should laugh off harassment. That they shouldn’t report a man for his behaviour, that they can’t take a joke, that they’ll ruin his life.

How many women have been intimidated out of jobs, promotions, workplaces? How many women have had their lives made smaller and more uncomfortable because of men’s entitlement and men’s predatory behaviour?

Why don’t women’s lives matter as much as men’s?

HR. This is so inappropriate that it needs to be formally dealt with so he understands how inappropriate it is to voice. You can't do anything about the fact that he thought it, but you can at least teach him that in normal society, we don't say this sort of thing to our colleagues.

@LivingInThe80s but this lady hasn’t been abused and a completely different scenario to child and women sexual abuse which is completely abhorrent.

I have nothing to be ashamed of.

Your comment was unreasonable and just because I don’t agree with you I don’t expect to be spoken to like that. I made it very clear the scenarios were different but people should act with caution when reporting if in doubt - which the OP obviously is.

So, please do not compare with child abuse - you are trivialising it.

It was totally inappropriate, and could be enough for a disciplinary.

Sexual harassment at work is never okay.