To not stop thinking about woman and child in a theme park?

[UnFringed]

Went to a theme park today (hate them anyway), a man went past shouting, clearly agitated, followed by resigned looking woman and weeping pre-teen. Man keeps turning and shouting, I could make out her saying “calm down”, and him saying “No, I can f’ing swear” and something like “she’s a filthy piece of shit” at the child, then making air punches, threatening. I turned and stopped and watched obviously hoping the attention at least would stop him, but had my 3 young kids so couldn’t intervene. Everyone else just passed on by Heads down and she just kept following him. Feel really really guilty for not doing more, and a bit weak.

I can’t stop thinking about that kid, about no one stepping in and how the woman was so accepting. I kind of hope she’s on here, and if she is please seek help to leave him even if just for the kid.

As others have said there was little you could have done. Intervention could lead to escalation and without a car reg/address/school you couldn't flag up the situation for help.

I always feel guilty about a woman who came in to where I work for something for her black eye. There was a very intimidating man with her who was standing so close to her that there was no way I could ask if she was OK. He just looked so menacing. I was racking my brains thinking how can I get her alone and help her, but ultimately I couldn't. It stays with me and I wonder if she got away.

@pigeonpies doing something would have made the situation worse later on. Did you not read PPs with actual experience of this sort of thing?

This is such a difficult situation. Like some previous posters I have been that child. The difference being that mum was not downtrodden and could have stopped it at any time. She chose not to. Reacting like this in public is definitely the tip of the iceberg and intervening could have calmed it down momentarily. The most likely is that the mother and child would have suffered more because of the intervention, they would have been blamed (and would have believed it was their fault) for showing him up in public. I dread to think of the consequences.

OP, there was little you could do. Please don’t feel guilty. Phoning the police, as has been suggested, would have had zero response and intervening could have had terrible consequences. If you knew the family and could report properly that would be a different matter. It is to be hoped that the school are aware or that social services are already involved.

I suppose you only got a snapshot of what went on, and don’t know the full story

You're absolutely right. This is him reining it in as he's in public. He'll be far worse behind closed doors.

@Worrywart1983 yes I did, which Is why I said to contact an authority trained to deal with these situations. I didn't advocate intervening personally, because I'm aware of how that could escalate for the victim.

We all have a responsibility to help or report where we can.

@Ace56

I suppose you only got a snapshot of what went on, and don’t know the full story, but he sounds nasty. Hopefully the woman is on here as you say

Under what circumstances is calling a child a 'filthy piece of shit' and making air punches in any way acceptable?! What full story could possibly justify that?! Not least that the mother clearly felt unable to do anything to really stand up to him or for her daughter. Sometimes you really do have enough of the story to judge.

Next time OP maybe you could quietly approach the woman and tell her if she wants help she can ask for Ani at a pharmacy. You could pretend to drop something in front of her and make a fuss about apologising and picking it up I guess if you want to talk to her without him suspecting or questioning her about what you said. Then at least she knows someone has seen and given a shit, it tells her what it happening is not ok and not normal, and it gives her a chance to seek help if she feels able to.

I have intervened in many situations and I don't regret it at all.

Yes there are abusers who will give it worse if called on but then there are people who need to be reminded that their actions are unacceptable.

I saw a dad slap his daughter across the face at an ice-skating rink and I told him (firmly and calmly) that was he was doing is illegal and if he did it again I'd call the police.

I stopped a man grabbing an old man in a head lock (I think it was a road rage thing).

I've stopped a gang of teenage boys from throwing glass bottles into the road.

I've intervened when a group of boys were shouting at one teenage girl outside the supermarket. Asking her if she was ok etc.

The list is long.....

I do not regret any of this. People need to know that others will stand up for them. In the case of the bottles as soon as people heard me shouting loads of people came out of their houses and supported me.

Not the point of the thread, but I would have intervened. It wouldn't have occurred to me that I'd have put them in danger and made it worse, so thank you for everyone's comments on that. Now, I know. The last thing I'd want is for someone to be hurt further.
What on earth can we do though? It feels so wrong to witness something like that and ignore it.

I saw a dad slap his daughter across the face at an ice-skating rink and I told him (firmly and calmly) that was he was doing is illegal and if he did it again I'd call the police.

What made you think this was an isolated incident? What do you think happened when the girl and her dad got home?

Better not to approach the dad and actually phone the police imo.

@Quaggars

Hmm, I dunno, tend to agree with those saying you only see a snapshot as you pass by.

So what do you think a primary age child might have said/done to justify being called a filthy piece of shit?

If only we all had an innocuous little piece of paper in our pockets with the number of womens' aid on it, or similar, to pass to the mum on the sly. That's all we can do, really, isn't it?

That would have haunted me too, OP.

oh dear that is so sad for everyone including you UnFringed .

@zoemum2006

I have intervened in many situations and I don't regret it at all.

Yes there are abusers who will give it worse if called on but then there are people who need to be reminded that their actions are unacceptable.

I saw a dad slap his daughter across the face at an ice-skating rink and I told him (firmly and calmly) that was he was doing is illegal and if he did it again I'd call the police.

I stopped a man grabbing an old man in a head lock (I think it was a road rage thing).

I've stopped a gang of teenage boys from throwing glass bottles into the road.

I've intervened when a group of boys were shouting at one teenage girl outside the supermarket. Asking her if she was ok etc.

The list is long.....

I do not regret any of this. People need to know that others will stand up for them. In the case of the bottles as soon as people heard me shouting loads of people came out of their houses and supported me.

Apart from the first one the situations you quote are very different. I can tell you from deep in my heart that I used to pray for someone to step in and stop it but I also knew that it would be worse for me later. It often would be. He would go coldly quiet, his face would set, and I would be terrified of going home. Mr nice guy in public and an abusing, merciless bully to the children at home.

Congratulations on your smugness, you keep on doing good deeds, and don’t let your sleep be disturbed by what might have happened to that child when she got home. Intervene in appropriate situations by all means but don’t pick the hill for someone else to die on. As this happened at an ice rink then it would not have been too difficult to find out who the father was and report them properly. Proper, formal, official intervention is often the only response these abusers understand.

zoemum2006
Yes there are abusers who will give it worse if called on but then there are people who need to be reminded that their actions are unacceptable.
How do you know which is which? What happened to the ice skating girl when she got home? What happened the next day to the girl when she saw the boys the next day? How do you know you are not making matters worse?

I have a similar story- shopping for groceries and an older couple were with a small toddler, presumably their grandchild, who was crying in a sort of whining way, like kids do when they’re tired or teething, or don’t want to go shopping. He was getting aggressive and shouty and she was trailing with that resigned, blank look. I was putting my groceries through the checkout and he marched past with the child out of the shop. I wish I had done something but I still don’t know what. It haunts me.

That is abuse and next time you witness it you should phone NSPCC. I witnessed something similar in a car park and phoned them with a number plate. The police were informed and I gave a witness statement. It is important as this witness account might just stack up in favour of social services being able to provide help. Always report it if it looks like abuse. You might just help the child get some help

I know what you mean about wanting to intervene, but as others have said, you could have well made things worse for the girl if you had. The dad could easily have taken it out on her in private for attracting negative attention to him in public. I know it's hard, I've seen some 'parents' being absolutely awful in public and wanted to say or do something.

@Bluetrews25

If only we all had an innocuous little piece of paper in our pockets with the number of womens' aid on it, or similar, to pass to the mum on the sly. That's all we can do, really, isn't it?

That would have haunted me too, OP.

You know what, I'll start doing this!

My DH used to became aggressive for no reason, but I would always feel it was my fault. It caused me a lot of confussion and anxiety. I should have left, but I didn't. It would have helped at the time, if a bypasser would have reassured me there was something wrong with his behaviour.

The sad thing is that during lockdown these poor children have nowhere to get away from this abuse.

I was once in India in a very holy town which attracts a small amount of white hindu devotees. I noticed that near where I was staying, there was a white woman who had a child. One day she walked past me and she looked terrible. Exhausted, harassed and terrified. I have never forgotten her face and wish I could have spoken to her and checked she was ok.

@zoemum2006 the person in every single one of those situations knew full well that their actions were unacceptable, it's not like they just forgot how to be a decent human being that doesn't happen. They might have stopped until you were out of sight but it won't stop them doing it again, and it wouldn't have stopped that father being 1000x worse when they got home and nobody was there to keep an eye on him - in fact he would just be angrier and you didn't report it to the police when you could have because instead you decided to step in and probably made things worse. I've been that child, my step dad knew full well that what he was doing was wrong, my mother knew full well that what he was doing was wrong they didn't need a stranger to come and tell them that.

It wouldn't have changed anything, OP, in fact it would probably have enraged him even more.

I'm a bolshy cow at the best of times, but I would have left alone.

@thelegohooverer

I have a similar story- shopping for groceries and an older couple were with a small toddler, presumably their grandchild, who was crying in a sort of whining way, like kids do when they’re tired or teething, or don’t want to go shopping. He was getting aggressive and shouty and she was trailing with that resigned, blank look. I was putting my groceries through the checkout and he marched past with the child out of the shop. I wish I had done something but I still don’t know what. It haunts me.

The only thing you could have done, which is what lots of people do in situations where toddlers/small children are whining/crying, is talk to the actual child e.g. what's the matter?

The child virtually never answers but they are shocked that someone else they don't know has noticed them.