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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think parking charges kill city centres?

205 replies

shakingstevensfan · 01/06/2021 00:57

We had a nice day out today and on the way home decided to stop in the city centre and get a cheap meal. We parked the car and went to pay, but the price of parking was £2.40 an hour - this applied up till 10 pm. This meant the minimum we would spend on parking was £4.80, but could easily be £7.20.
If I had been going for an expensive meal that would be fine. But the city centre is full of fairly cheap chain restaurants that are nothing special. So we got back in the car and drove instead to a retail park where we went to the exact same place we had planned to go, but with free parking.
It just amazes me that councils know city centres are dying but they still put people off actually using them.
We have not been in the city centre for a year and won't go back again unless it is for something special.

OP posts:
RockingMyFiftiesNot · 01/06/2021 10:10

And outside London, only those who are poor or can't drive tend not to have a car. It is different in London.

I think that's a bit of a sweeping statement.I know lots of drivers who could easily afford cars who live in big cities (not just London - Bristol, Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester, Newcastle to name a few where I know people) who have decided it's not worth running a car. Don't have children which might be a deciding factor but still, not poor and drivers and outside London .

shakingstevensfan · 01/06/2021 10:11

@IntermittentParps Maybe I just like coffee and cake less Grin

I do think this is a social issue. I agree with someone else who said that retail parks work against the poorest as they are designed to be used by those with cars. And I do like high streets. We were prepared to pay something for parking and to walk five minutes from the car to the restaurant, rather than just park up outside. But there is a personal tipping balance and the cost was just too high.

OP posts:
shakingstevensfan · 01/06/2021 10:14

@RockingMyFiftiesNot yes maybe different without children? But where I live anyone who can drive and can afford it has a car, unless they are very keen environmentalists. Personally, I would be happy with a car share scheme. Although we have one in our city, it only has a handful of cars available in the whole city. I would have to walk for 25 minutes to get to one car. And if that is being used it is about 40 minutes walk to the next one.
So we have a car. Only one though that we share. Life would just be too limited without one.

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justlonelystars · 01/06/2021 10:15

Depends. Would cost my husband and I £9.80 for two return tickets on the bus into town. Or I can drive in the comfort of my own car with boot space for shopping and pay less for parking. Both are extortionate to be honest, but public transport is an absolutely joke at that price.

IntermittentParps · 01/06/2021 10:18

I agree with someone else who said that retail parks work against the poorest as they are designed to be used by those with cars. I said that Grin

I do know what you mean about a tipping balance. I think there should be parking on the periphery of towns/cities and then free or cheap transport into the very centre, so (most) people didn't have to weigh that up and then use a car instead.

I would say in common with Rocking that not having a car through choice is IME pretty common for those who live in towns and cities.

Brefugee · 01/06/2021 10:18

I am not getting on park and ride with my family at the end of a day out to go to a chain restaurant

Why not, OP?

Babdoc · 01/06/2021 10:20

My DDs live in Edinburgh. Car parking in the centre is eye wateringly expensive if you can even find a space. And the traffic congestion is awful long before you reach the centre.
However, the council have provided excellent public transport - buses running every ten minutes, in dedicated bus lanes, anywhere in the city, for the same reasonable fixed fare. Or in my case for free, as I have a bus pass.
I park at DD1’s house in the suburbs at the outer end of the bus route, and bus in to visit DD2 in the centre.
The centre was thriving pre Covid, as a major tourist destination, not just for shopping. Discouraging cars doesn’t seem to have harmed it at all. There is also a tram and a rail line to the centre.

cissyandbessy · 01/06/2021 10:21

YANBU I live in a decent sized town and balk at the parking costs in the 3 massive chain car parks which have been built. It's around £12 for 3 hours. So usually doubles whatever I'm there for whether it's a meal or the cinema. So I rarely go now as the bus is slow and pricey - specially if more than one person - often cheaper to get a cab. Retail park is soulless but convenient and easier to get to 🤷🏼‍♀️

shakingstevensfan · 01/06/2021 10:22

@IntermittentParps Didn't realise it was you who said it. I think it was a good point.

I think anyone choosing not to have a car where I live has very different interests to me. We have lovely countryside nearby but you are very limited if you have to take public transport to get there. We go walks a lot and use the car to get there. But using the car also means we can visit lots of different places in a day. This would be impossible by public transport. Fair enough if people choose not to have a car, just explaining that we will not give up our car ever.

OP posts:
DeathByWalkies · 01/06/2021 10:26

One of the measures which isn't getting sufficient attention on here is the provision of proper, traffic free cycling infrastructure, on routes that take people from centre to suburbia on sensible, consistent routes.

Infrastructure similar to CycleSuperhighway3 in London where it's a very long traffic free route that parents feel safe enough to take their children on, and the less confident new cyclists feel safe enough to use. Bike parking is, of course, free at the other end and you can normally park closer on a bike than you can on a car. Parked bikes also take up far less space than cars.

During lockdown, Cardiff council has been putting in lots of very good segregated cycle lanes, and has plans for more; I cannot tell you how pleased I am.

shakingstevensfan · 01/06/2021 10:26

@Brefugee

I am not getting on park and ride with my family at the end of a day out to go to a chain restaurant

Why not, OP?

Because we were going to a chain restaurant as we were tired and could not be bothered cooking. It was not a special night out, just a fairly tasty but nothing spectacular meal. It was not worth driving to a park and ride (which would be out of our way), to get on a bus, walk to the restaurant and vice versa. We were driving through the city centre to get home.
OP posts:
QuestionableMouse · 01/06/2021 10:27

@MiddleClassMother

No, the parking charges are designed to keep you from using the car. We should pedestrianise most cities, driving in the city is counter productive anyways, it just takes longer. Think London, you'd be insane to drive round there! Soon all cities will be the same as public transport links improve.
It's a 20-30 min drive to my nearest town, let alone city. Last time I tried it on the bus, it took 90 minutes. London isn't representative of the entire country.
shakingstevensfan · 01/06/2021 10:32

@Babdoc Edinburgh is very different to your average city centre. It has always relied massively on tourism, both British and foreign tourism. Your average city centre like ours gets little or no tourism. They don't have a world-renowned castle, a National Gallery, museums and other attractions in the City Centre. There are a lot of attractions in Edinburgh city centre where you can easily make it a day out.
Our city-centre attractions are shopping, bars and restaurants, a cinema and a bowling alley. All of these are available in suburbia or retail parks. The only unique things in the city centre is the theatre, gigs and nightclubs (when they are allowed to happen again) and ice-skating.

OP posts:
maddening · 01/06/2021 10:32

Outside of London yanbu, in the northwest here and we have sweet FA in the way of reasonable public transport- even ignoring cost there are often places you just can't get to and even if.you can it could be a 50 minute journey on a couple of buses that take 10 minutes in the car.

So unless they sort public transport the "you need to ditch the car" argument is a pile of shite for areas outside of London.

shakingstevensfan · 01/06/2021 10:34

@MiddleClassMother even though we have good public transport, driving is always quicker. Except at peak commuter times, the city centre roads are never that busy. That is why my satnav always highlights driving through the city centre as the quickest route.

OP posts:
IntermittentParps · 01/06/2021 10:34

So unless they sort public transport the "you need to ditch the car" argument is a pile of shite for areas outside of London
TBF I think most people on here are saying precisely that public transport needs sorting in order for people to ditch the car.

shakingstevensfan · 01/06/2021 10:39

I am saying that even with good public transport into the city centre, I am not ditching the car. I was happy to when I used to go into the city centre to do a range of things. Those days have long gone for me. In a suburb near me, a few new restaurants are opening up. So I doubt I am the only one ditching the city centre.
We also have a number of big-city centre-based employers moving to hybrid working, so there will be far less office workers in the city centre. I just feel sad that I think our city centre will die, and I think our leaders are stuck in the past.

OP posts:
DeathByWalkies · 01/06/2021 10:40

We also have a traffic free cycle route pretty much from outside our door to the town/Station but how am I supposed to carry say a saucepan set home? What about when it rains?

There's lots of great ways to transport stuff on a bike.

For day to day use (including trips to the supermarket), I have a set of Ortlieb panniers. They're fantastic - tardis-like, waterproof and so durable - I bought them second hand when I was a student ten years ago and they've still got plenty of life left in them.

Anyone who uses their bike for day to day life (i.e. not just sport!) will have a pannier rack over the back wheel, which opens up the possibility of using bungee cords to secure something large on them.

For very large items I have a cargo trailer, which hitches onto the back of my bike, and could transport an armchair or fridge with relative ease (and larger items, with a bit of overhang and some bungee cords). Not that I need to transport armchairs or fridges on a regular basis, but it has recently come into its own for transporting lots of heavy books from a house clearance to the local charity shops where there's no parking.

If you were constantly moving lots of things (usually small children, dogs, and a weekly shop for a whole family) and were very committed to it, then you could get a cargo bike (e.g. Babboe, Christiana), though it sounds like that's way beyond what you'd be looking for!

For your specific question of a set of saucepans, I'd either use bungee cords to secure it to the pannier rack, or take them out the packaging to make it smaller and fit them in my pannier bags.

When it's raining, I have a jacket which achieves the holy grail of being both breathable and waterproof. It's DHB / Wiggle brand. Waterproof trousers come out on particularly bad days - but there's not many days where I feel it's raining hard enough for waterproof trousers!

Comefromaway · 01/06/2021 10:44

I live 5 mins drive away from a station that has a direct route in to Manchester. It takes 30 mins on the train.

When we go to the theatre in Manchester we have to drive because the last train leaves at 10.15pm which is too early.

shakingstevensfan · 01/06/2021 10:46

@DeathByWalkies good for you. You are obviously a committed cyclist. I don't even have a bike and my DP can not manage a bike anymore. But more importantly, I see mainly younger fit white men cycling in and out of town. It appeals to a certain demographic. There have been lots of initiatives to promote cycling in my city as transport. Most people do not want to.
Pople seem to forget that the choice is not how do we travel to the city centre, but do we go there or do we go somewhere else. And increasingly people are choosing to go elsewhere. Like others have said, the retail parks where I live are always really busy.
We have a population that is becoming increasingly older. And yet local leaders like ours just seems to see city centres as for the young. They will die on their feet with that approach.

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 01/06/2021 10:49

[quote shakingstevensfan]@DeathByWalkies good for you. You are obviously a committed cyclist. I don't even have a bike and my DP can not manage a bike anymore. But more importantly, I see mainly younger fit white men cycling in and out of town. It appeals to a certain demographic. There have been lots of initiatives to promote cycling in my city as transport. Most people do not want to.
Pople seem to forget that the choice is not how do we travel to the city centre, but do we go there or do we go somewhere else. And increasingly people are choosing to go elsewhere. Like others have said, the retail parks where I live are always really busy.
We have a population that is becoming increasingly older. And yet local leaders like ours just seems to see city centres as for the young. They will die on their feet with that approach.[/quote]
Yes, cycling for us is not an option either. Dh isn't even fit to drive a car let alone a cycle given his dizziness and balance issues. And then there is my asthma.

Serpenta · 01/06/2021 10:51

I think our leaders are stuck in the past

Cars dominating cities should be a thing of the past. I think UK cities should take lessons from places like Madrid, Copenhagen or Brussels. The car doesn't have to be king. It takes a bit of vision but there is another way.

Comefromaway · 01/06/2021 10:55

The equivalents to Madrid, Copenhagen and Brussels would be London, Birmingham and Manchester. which have pretty good local rail/metro etc links.

But most cities are nothing like that. Mine has a train station that isn't anywhere near the city centre for example.

Serpenta · 01/06/2021 10:57

I mean it would obviously require proper spending and major improvements to public transport.

RockingMyFiftiesNot · 01/06/2021 10:58

Just been discussing this with DH (after so long in lockdown together any new topic welcome!)
He said 'yes but you can pay £7 for a large glass of pretty average wine'

Which I would sink in 20 minutes (couldn't argue with that!) so maybe £7.20 for 3 hours of parking isn't that bad, especially if a couple/family in the car.

Just to add a bit of perspective!