To think parking charges kill city centres?

[shakingstevensfan]

We had a nice day out today and on the way home decided to stop in the city centre and get a cheap meal. We parked the car and went to pay, but the price of parking was £2.40 an hour - this applied up till 10 pm. This meant the minimum we would spend on parking was £4.80, but could easily be £7.20.
If I had been going for an expensive meal that would be fine. But the city centre is full of fairly cheap chain restaurants that are nothing special. So we got back in the car and drove instead to a retail park where we went to the exact same place we had planned to go, but with free parking.
It just amazes me that councils know city centres are dying but they still put people off actually using them.
We have not been in the city centre for a year and won't go back again unless it is for something special.

Free, convenient , public transport
Then ban cars from city centres
www.cnbc.com/2020/03/02/free-public-transportation-is-a-reality-in-100-citiesheres-why.html

@NoSquirrels

Ellpellwood Bath park and ride is free, though?

Gosh that's most unusual to get a bath as well, do you get the bath when you embark to prevent smelly people spoiling the lovely town or on your return from the grimy streets?

My local city has astronomical parking charges and they banned cars from the main street in the city during certain hours of the day. The city centre is now dying a death, shops , bars and restaurants are all closing because the place is like a ghost town and this was before covid. The shopping centres in the suburbs which offer free parking are bustling with people. So they've just moved the congestion from one place to another.

I live rurally all the towns near us have free parking. It’s convenient and means it’s easy to pop in. If there were parking charges I would order online or go without.

Our nearest city is an hour away I don’t want to spend another half hour sat on a park and ride to get to the centre especially with a toddler. Maybe when they are older but at the moment I would rather drive in and pay the extortionate parking charges.

Also the park and ride charges per person, if we are popping in for lunch it’s cheaper (and quicker) to park in the centre then shop in a retail park than use the park and ride.

Where I am it could cost £20 to park for 2 or 3 hours if you don't know the right car parks to go to. That is extortionate.

However there does have to be a balance because if it was too cheap no one would get the bus or cycle. People do need to be made to think more about using their cars for short trips to town and whether it is really necessary.

Our city is in a river valley so wherever you live it’s a nice downhill stroll in and a steep climb back home. Buses are irregular, expensive and crowded. Car parking is expensive and car parks are being closed for re-development (flats).
We have some lovely independent shops that I would love to use but don’t because of the hassle of getting stuff home.. So I drive to the out of town supermarket the same as everyone else and shop online for large items.

@romdowa

My local city has astronomical parking charges and they banned cars from the main street in the city during certain hours of the day. The city centre is now dying a death, shops , bars and restaurants are all closing because the place is like a ghost town and this was before covid. The shopping centres in the suburbs which offer free parking are bustling with people. So they've just moved the congestion from one place to another.

It's similar where I live. You can drive 20 minutes away and be at a huge shopping complex with free parking and a huge assortment of shops. It doesn't take a genius to realise this is obviously preferable than spending a fortune on parking in the city centre where every 5th shop or bar is now closed.

Our public transport whilst good is rapidly becoming unaffordable as prices keep rising. For example you now cannot buy a return ticket on our buses only a single or an all day ticket which is approximately £5 per person. So even if people wanted to use it, it's simply not a viable option for many.

@Ellpellwood

I live about 15 minutes from Bath. For one, it's cheaper to pay the £7ish train fare than approx £10 to park, but for 4 adults who would fit in my car it's £28. Public transport isn't a magic alternative solution at those prices so people will continue to drive and pay the tenner.

I don't think anyone said it's a magic alternative. But it does people think rather than just automatically jumping in the car.

Nope. That's what park and rides or for. Or parking around the edge of the city which is cheaper. Belfast has huge car-free centre ( disabled access excepted) and it's lovely to walk around the city centre without too much traffic. You can still park very central if you want but it's not cheap encourages bus use.
Brighton is another one where you can drive to the centre but not park on the streets, need to use the multi storeys, but has park and ride and really good bus/train services and compact enough to walk everywhere.
Again - lovely to walk around all the lanes and city centre with minimal traffic. There's no way I would compare that to the experience at a retail park.
I hate the get in the car -go to superstore. back in car, drive over to the other superstore experience.
But in reality there is room for both foot-friendly high streets and retail parks...

@NoSquirrels

Ellpellwood Bath park and ride is free, though?

Odd Down? It's 25 minutes drive to there from here plus the bus ride. 16 minutes on the train and I live by the station. And have you ever queued for the P&R bus on a Saturday?

I totally agree with you.

It's happened in several big towns around here and they've started doing it in our small coastal town too. All the shops hate as it just kills trade. Nobody is going to pay £3 an hour to park in the town centre when you can park in the retail parks all day for free.

There's also very, very poor public transport here so it's not like people can be persuaded to get the bus instead.

I think this happens in your situation OP because you have the choice of eating at Restaurants A, B, C in the city centre with an additional £4/7 fee for parking (and possibly a bit of a walk thrown in?), or eating at the same places without the additional fee. So quite logically you choose the latter.

I live in London. I drive to the supermarket weekly (it's very close but despite getting home deliveries we often need a top up during the week), to a large mall for parking when my daughter does a weekly activity nearby (so £2.20 on top of the activity), I drive to work because I typically have to lug a lot of stuff around with me (100+kg, not a laptop sort of weight). I'd say once a month or so I drive into central London, paying an additional £15/day Congestion Charge to do so and parking fees on top (£5/6), to do things that we can't do anywhere else. If my car was older I'd also be paying a ULEZ charge - can't remember the amount but I expect £10/day. I'm sitting here trying to think what would stop me bringing my car into the city centre. A cut in my income, I guess. Or much more pleasant, reliable public transport.

I don't think anyone said it's a magic alternative. But it does people think rather than just automatically jumping in the car.

I don't think it does when it's more costly to use it than even "expensive" parking, and less convenient. It's a very large part of the problem. I wish more cities had things like the Newcastle Metro.

Our city also has shocking public transport , its forever late , costs a fortune and there is never enough buses so they are always packed and you could be left stranded waiting for whenever the next one appears. The business owners in the city centre are up in arms about it all and are fighting hard for some kind of change in the system. It used to be an amazing and vibrant city.

I don't think anyone said it's a magic alternative. But it does people think rather than just automatically jumping in the car.

For me, it just makes me think "I'll just order off Amazon then" - because not everywhere has access to an alternative.

Not everyone lives in cities with park and ride services, regular buses and trains. To get to my local "big town" the choices are to drive or get the train - there is no bus service and it's 23 mile walk

When I go there, I park at the retail parks because it's free, directly off the main road into town and there's always space. I don't bother going into the town centre anymore. It's expensive (and you're not always guaranteed to find parking) and the cost of the train for a family would be nearly £25, plus a 15-20 minute walk on top.

We had an excellent Park and Ride service up until about 5 years ago. It was just scrapped. I would use it if going into town alone (£3 return IIRC)
The parking charges aren't extortionate though IMO (about £1 an hour), and I like the convenience of being able to go back to the car with bags prior to eating, or just because I get fed up of carrying them.

They built a huge park and ride near us. We went to use it one Saturday only to discover there are two buses per hour. Who is going to use that service? There are more through the week, four or five an hour, not evenly spaced. The buses to it are heaving in the rush hour, often too full to stop when they get to the bus stop I use from work (back when going to work was a normal part of life). So what should be a convenient service for my commute is useless. I’ve never seen it more than a third full of cars.

@FangsForTheMemory

It’s not all about YOUR convenience.

No but it IS a valid point when we are constantly hearing how the high street is dying. Units and shops in my city are closing all the time.

I've looked into getting the bus that stops outside my front door 4 times an hour into town.
We have some lovely places for dinner and a drink on the terrace.
Bus finishes at 6.30pm. So non starter.
Until public transport is excellent, I'll not be ditching my car. If the council want to push people to drive to lakeside, then by all means they should carry on with the OTT parking charges. Our pedestrianised high street is already dead as a dodo at over £1.20 an hour to park.

I disagree. £2.40 an hour isn’t much. Do your business and move on. Or factor it into the cost of a day out. I only want Sh the parking costs would be used for the public good and not go into the pocket of whoever won the contract (usually someone living abroad who pays no tax).

This has happened in Tunbridge Wells, high parking charges at the dying shopping centre and a retail park that’s always absolutely packed.
Town councils on a box ticking exercise to be green but killing the struggling centre where they used to get so much revenue from business rates.

Councils have little or no means of discretionary income other than parking charges and to an extent parking penalty charges. So part of the blame goes to successive governments placing them in this position and continuing to allow the construction of out of town retail parks.

Analogue business taxes on the legal fiction of business rates do not help.

I agree OP.

Only yesterday l was looking to purchase an item from Argos. But the nearest one is in the town centre where l have to pay..... or l go to one slightly further out and don't pay.

Can guess which l chose

@FangsForTheMemory

It’s not all about YOUR convenience.

But it is! That’s exactly the reason we have shops and restaurants in towns. We can all cook at home, make our own clothes whatever but it’s convenient to buy them from shops.

It’s great to say don’t use cars but that what we have to get around. I walk into town when I have time. Often I’ll need to go and grab a bottle of wine and flowers before I go somewhere. It doesn’t warrant 40 mins walk there and back for a £10 purchase. Our roads are busy and tight. Holding up the traffic as I go 15 miles an hour is annoying for everyone.

Our town centre started dying about 20 years ago when the massive out of town shopping centre and retail parks started to be built. What was once a bustling and lovely town centre is now a series of bargain basement and vaping shops. It is really sad

Council started free parking during lockdown (when Boots the chemist was about the only thing open) and has continued it. Not made any difference, the damage of years of neglect into the high street has been done