I’ve had enough of the class dojo

[Myleftfoot39]

Every week one or two children win the dojo and get a prize. Some children have won it twice or three times. Today a child who defaced another child’s clothing (had written all over it in class) won it (they are in Year 2).

My ds is quiet, well behaved and works really hard. Does all his homework, is reading and writing and working hard. It’s awful but today he came out of school crying his eyes out because he thought he might win the dojo.

Even at bedtime he was upset about it.He doesn’t understand why the naughty kids get rewards but he feels ‘invisible’. He said there’s something wrong with him and is very upset.

I have reassured him and told him the dojo doesn’t matter but it really does matter to him. The teacher makes a big deal out of giving the dojo out as theres a photo of the child on the dojo for all to see.

I’m really fed up of it!!

Seems to be a lot of not so subtle SEN bashing on this thread. Maybe just be grateful that your kids aren’t going to struggle loads in later life - and I say this as a parent who doesn’t have SEN kids

OP do you work at the school? Otherwise it’s very disturbing that you have access to their SEN register, which I’m assuming you do as you so confidently state the numbers

@Thisisus909

One of my children has special needs (with no support yet - poor him and poor other kids), can’t complete homework (totally inappropriate level) etc. His school are big into rewards and sanctions, which are proven to kill internal/intrinsic motivation.

I strongly suggest you do all you can to help remove the ‘power’ of these rewards. Seriously prioritise your child’s sense in who they are and why they do what they do. Do they work hard for praise or because it is of benefit to them? Are they kind because it’s a school rule or because it’s morally right? When the motivation is intrinsic, others can’t rob you of it. Also avoids safeguards your child from people in authority in the future who may not have their best interests at heart.

As adults we can understand and rationalise that. Small children can't. The tat and recognition is desirable, not just because of the reward but feeling they belong, they're one of the "pack", they're seen and acknowledged.

In this class there are only two children who haven't got this award. It's not a good feeling for them no matter how mature , understanding and intrinsically motivated they are.

I was forced into giving a special reward for a child. It was very clear she just needed attention and boundaries. I wasn't allowed to instill boundaries because of the school policy. Just increasingly elaborate rewards in learning time.

This led me to overhear one of the saddest children's conversations I've ever heard.

Reward child covered in glitter and fairy wings, singing and colouring whilst everyone else did writing.
Sweet and quiet child: I wish I was you (reward child) you're so lucky.

Sometimes the teacher's hands are tied by school policy.

DD went to a school like this. She’s in secondary now and still mentions how awful her primary was and how ignored she was. I don’t think she wanted rewards, she just wanted to be noticed.
I did complain and something would happen and the teacher would remark what a difference it would make to her, then go back to being ignored. All she needed was a small amount of attention.

Primary did very few out of school activities, guess who was picked to do them all. Guess who we’re picked to do all the shows etc. I can understand the theory. Equally I can’t see how this prepares them for secondary school where the opposite is true. I’ve worked in secondary schools and no way would the misbehaving children be given priority. To me it seems like a mixed signal.

The teacher doesn't like speaking to parents?

What sort of school is this.

Pity about her.

Contact the HT.

I hate these systems. The disruptive children in DSs class are consistently the top and it's so demotivating for the rest of the class. I'm pretty sure there is so significant improvement with the disruptive ones based on the stories I hear and what I see at the school gate.

I was absolutely horrified in Reception that they had a system where you got stickers based on 'positive qualities' such as kindness, listening and trying hard. All the most disruptive children had the most stickers (along with another girl who I think was a favourite) while all the rest of the children only had one, two or no stickers. Imagine getting to the third term and never been told you are kind or that you work hard while having to look at the charts everyday of your classmates who have. Hideous!

My oldest used to get lots of rewards to try and motivate her. She had undiagnosed ASD with sensory processing disorder and was really stressed and anxious. Her behaviour was very challenging. But she knew it and felt ashamed of herself. She hated all the stupid awards and certificates she got as she’d knew she didn’t deserve them and the teachers were just trying to manipulate her instead of providing the support she desperately needed. She is in secondary with proper support and thriving now.

DD2 is the quiet, hard work working, well behaved one who gets overlooked by the teachers. She is disappointed but understands she has an easier path in life than the poorly behaved kids. She will be rewarded with good exam grades and life choices.

I agree with you and its not petty at all. I am the one that gives out the rewards and ensure that the quieter more reserved children are never overlooked
You need to day something. It was not designed as a tool for classroom management, it's supposed to be there to recognise and celebrate individual achievements. ( I am of course assuming their rationale is the same)

My dds school noonger use class dojo but when they did the class saved up their dojo points for a whole class reward. So if they as a class got say 100 dojo points they got to have hot chocolate on a Friday etc. Which means that the whole class has to work to get a reward. Currently they use golden time so if a child is on the black cloud by Friday they don't get golden time but if you are on the sun you do get golden time. I don't know if it works tbh because the same kids seem to be on the black cloud every week.

I don't know how you get a young child on board, but I bet your DS gets the best end of life's deal. The teacher knows what that child's up against, whereas your child is priveledged in so many ways.

Obviously I don't know these children, but I'd be prepared to bet that what the child in question overcame to get this award was at least equal if not greater than what your child has done. The teacher hasn't awarded it to the "naughty" child for fun, there will be a reason he deserves it.

Well a lot of you would have loved DS3s Yr2 teacher. He has SEN and is also naughty. The TA awarded him the class reward one week, but the class teacher overruled and told my son what he'd done was not exceptional enough. He's out of mainstream now and in a school that does things very differently.

I have an academically able well behaved child who was overlooked through primary and it carries on in secondary. He knows why and can now just shrug it off. I have brought it up with his school before, but just get told to take it up with the individual teachers. I don't want teachers to get annoyed with him which I'm sure is all that would happen.
He'll have an easier time long term.

I feel for you. I was a DHT and infant teacher and I used to keep a list to ensure fairness. I would literally pick names out of a hat to give out the star of the week (as per school guidance) as I always said I could find something to give every child a ‘prize’ for daily. Kindness, manners, helpfulness etc etc.
Funnily enough, one of my DDs is right now fixated on the class ‘cup’ which she hasn’t yet had. She just had her report which said she is exceeding in all areas, she has lovely manners, always listens and tries her absolute best, is always kind, follows the golden rules etc. so she doesn’t understand why she hasn’t had it. It’s sad when they are made to feel like they aren’t enough.

We have a similar weekly class prize at our school but all of the teacher keep records to make sure that everyone wins at some point over the year. Maybe your child's turn will come, there is still half a term left?

I think I am probably projecting a bit here because parents approach me from October onwards to 'have a word' because their child hasn't won yet, or in some cases have forgotten that their child has actually won (until I produce a copy of the cert they took home).

I had a similar conversation with a parent yesterday and explained that there are 38 school weeks in a year, fewer this year due to lockdown, and 34 children in my class - they will have a turn.

And parents don't know everything even when they think they do. You can't know which children have SEN, and I am not sure how you know that only two pupils haven't won yet unless you're keeping a record.

not SEN - our school has very few SEN - but kids who are very naughty

How can you possibly know this?

But yes, yes, of course, the system is so unfair when your perfectly behaved quiet boy never gets some pointless reward and all those terribly behaved naughty children get all the perks.

Perhaps teach your own child that good behaviour is it’s own reward and not to be so focused on behaving a certain way in order to get a prize.

I remember dd saying 'BB got a shiny sticker. I never get a shiny because I never hurt people!' She was 5. I also had the other child the one that got star of the week twice in a row and even I thought ffs he's a nightmare why are you rewarding him!!!

I hate star of the week with a passion. They don’t help any children IMO. The quiet hardworking children get forgotten and the rowdy , naughty kids gets rewarded for not being rowdy and naughty for one day ? It’s not a good way to educate children. Those naughty children are in for a shock when they enter the real world. Reassure your son that’s it’s not him.
I don’t include children with adhd etc in the naughty children. And yes some children are just naughty and don’t have any additional needs.

My DS came home from school after six weeks in reception with a sticker for "answering his name when teacher called the register". This was huge for him, not for others.

Awww orange that's lovely.

@fourminutestosavetheworld

We have a similar weekly class prize at our school but all of the teacher keep records to make sure that everyone wins at some point over the year. Maybe your child's turn will come, there is still half a term left?

I think I am probably projecting a bit here because parents approach me from October onwards to 'have a word' because their child hasn't won yet, or in some cases have forgotten that their child has actually won (until I produce a copy of the cert they took home).

I had a similar conversation with a parent yesterday and explained that there are 38 school weeks in a year, fewer this year due to lockdown, and 34 children in my class - they will have a turn.

And parents don't know everything even when they think they do. You can't know which children have SEN, and I am not sure how you know that only two pupils haven't won yet unless you're keeping a record.

What's the point in this then? Every kid 'wins' at least once. So why bother. Would it not be easier to do a child per week gets to be in charge of xyz and class game chooser or whatever. These awards are just garbage.

My child hot one towards the end off the school year for being tidy or some other nonsense.
I'd rather they were just given positive feedback about their academic improvement or being a good person. Not 'weekly wonderchild' and then the next week someone else gets it Because we're just running through the register.

Bizarre

When I was at primary, this was just starting to be a thing. We had a chart of square paper and everytime someone won a point for their team a square was coloured in. It died a very quick death when it was found some creative child was colouring in a few extra squares.
Reward systems like this are rarely 'fair' or reflect the real world. I'd like to hope that they are all relative and the brighter children work out the system, I have heard of children wondering whether they are 'not so clever' when they get an award certificate. Especially in the lower years. You only have to watch the class assembly or look at the dojo list to work out 'naughty', 'brightest', 'favourite', 'quiet' and 'not so able'.

It sucks.

On the flip side of this, it's also frustrating if your school has star of the week and you have more than one child you want to reward that week. Particularly if it was a group effort or something like that, or several children did a wonderful piece of writing.
So then you have a choice. Ignore the system and get sanctioned by senior leadership for giving multiple awards or choose one child and leave the children thinking their effort fell short comparatively.
And then there are the weeks that no one really stands out, usually unstructured ones where everyone makes a good effort towards a project like a play. Rewarding one child for their acting, unless you happen to have a shy child who overcame it, often leads to the other children feeling their contribution wasn't valued.

In an ideal world teachers would be trusted to give appropriate rewards and sanctions best suited to the individuals in their class. Never going to happen though, as if senior leadership weren't trying to make everyone uniform their roles and salaries would be redundant.

It is rubbish for the quiet, unassuming, diligent ones

Unfortunately this can be true in the workplace as well.......

I suspect that way back when it was only ever the well behaved, clever children who got these awards, schools tried to address that by making sure children who struggled (with behaviour or academically) were rewarded for trying hard, and now the pendulum has swung too far the other way and the “little shits” are rewarded for not hitting the other children while those who are quiet and well behaved are overlooked. I think my son’s school deals with this reasonably well - they give out two star awards each week and I would say that generally one goes to a “high flyer” and one to a child who struggles but has done something which is a real achievement for them. Interestingly my son got his for writing which is the one thing he finds hard. He is only in Reception though so this may change!

"My child hot one towards the end off the school year for being tidy or some other nonsense.
I'd rather they were just given positive feedback about their academic improvement or being a good person."

Yes all of the teachers and schools I know also give positive feedback too - verbally (all day every day really), written on their work, by displaying work, by giving class responsibilities or choosing them to do a job, through other reward systems (class or table points, house points etc).

The weekly 'prize' isn't all there is by way of praise and encouragement but it is nice to see children acknowledged for something exceptional, even if they have to wait a bit, or even if the parents don't necessarily agree.

In my class, the really lovely kids - the vast majority of them - are pleased when their friends win. Sometimes the class chooses the winner. I always say how many other children could have won or how difficult the choice was.

It's hard when you're little and not the one chosen though, I get that.