I’ve had enough of the class dojo

[Myleftfoot39]

Every week one or two children win the dojo and get a prize. Some children have won it twice or three times. Today a child who defaced another child’s clothing (had written all over it in class) won it (they are in Year 2).

My ds is quiet, well behaved and works really hard. Does all his homework, is reading and writing and working hard. It’s awful but today he came out of school crying his eyes out because he thought he might win the dojo.

Even at bedtime he was upset about it.He doesn’t understand why the naughty kids get rewards but he feels ‘invisible’. He said there’s something wrong with him and is very upset.

I have reassured him and told him the dojo doesn’t matter but it really does matter to him. The teacher makes a big deal out of giving the dojo out as theres a photo of the child on the dojo for all to see.

I’m really fed up of it!!

@Myleftfoot39

I would prefer this compared to the current system. The child who won it today who was naughty has no SEN and is just very naughty. The school told the child to write a letter of apology which never happened and mum just said sorry to the other mum.

It seems to me there is a lot of undiagnosed Sen in primary. My dd’s secondary school is brilliant at picking up on it. You also wouldn’t necessarily be aware of all children with Sen. Legally it has to be private. I went to pick my dd up from a girl’s house in perhaps yr5 and the mum had a sheet of paper on the countertop about the girl’s Sen. I had no idea.

Anyway. Back to your issue. A quick well worded email asking how your ds can work on achieving this goal will probably quickly rectify this.

My dd came home yesterday saying someone has won the class award for the week because she tried doing an extra maths challenge for the first time all year. My dd has been doing the extra ones every single week. And someone else got it last week for spelling some year 1 words correctly - they are now in Year 4. I explained that it is all relative and she should be proud of herself but l can see why she gets so frustrated because the other kids who get it are the naughty ones and it doesn't seem fair at all.

@Myleftfoot39

There are only 2 children in a class of 24 that haven’t won the dojo any that is my ds and another boy.

So it's not just the naughty kids then? Just not your son yet. The school I used to work in made sure every child won it over the year so it didn't seem that unfair really. Also please be aware that you won't necessarily know about kids who have SEN, it is not something that is generally announced to school parents. Just email the teacher.

This used to happen in my kids' school, too.

There was one particular boy who was a nightmare, and he would be awarded the "Clever Clogs" for NOT destroying other children's work (he would often rip up their work, or tear their pictures in half).

Any complaints to the school were met wit, "We want to encourage good behaviour, not just punish bad." Which is fair enough - but other children had their bad behaviour punished while this little monkey got away with murder!

For the record, he wasn't on "The Spectrum", or from challenging home circumstances - he was juts an over-indulged little bugger whose parents saw nothing wrong in his behaviour and a teacher who had him sitting on her knee for half the lesson. He was very intelligent and his mother claimed that this meant that he got bored easily (fair enough), BUT he was given more challenging work than the rest of the class. He just HAD to be the centre of attention - he was at home too.*

It was very upsetting for other children who had worked their socks off, not to even get a sniff of the sh*tty "Clever Clogs".

*His younger sister came off her bike and knocked herself unconscious. She was "out" for over an hour - mum didn't take her to casualty because she "hadn't got time to sit in a waiting room half a day". And worse - mum didn't see anything wrong in her attitude.

I’m afraid it was ever thus, OP. I remember having to explain this to DS when he was little. It’s crap isn’t it?

That forest school thing is tough for primary school kids, who tend to see themselves as one class.

I don’t know how you know there is little SEN though - that’s private information. I don’t know that any of DS’s class have diagnoses, but I assume that I just don’t know.

If the teacher won't communicate I'd bypass and speak direct to the head.
(I'm a primary teacher and I'd be mortified if a parent found me unapproachable)

I think it's fine for kids who find behaviour to win the dojo for genuine effort. It wouldn't be good for anyone for the kids who find school work and good behaviour easy to win every week. It isn't OK however for quiet kids who work consistently to be forgotten. Tell the teacher how upset your son is.

I had an invisible child all the way through primary school. Even in year 6, when to be fair he cared much less, the child who threatened to stab him with a knife got star of the week 2 weeks later. The argument that teachers use that they’ll all get it eventually didn’t really stand up either thanks to Covid!

It’s all changed now he’s gone to high school and is finally getting noticed.

PS a particularly low point was when DS was in year 1 and just 5 years old. He was sitting in the bath telling me how he was just going to have to work even harder and be a really good boy (his behaviour has always been impeccable) to get star of the week next week and just knowing that it wouldn’t make the blindest but of difference! I tried to explain this to him over and over again but he was too little to understand.

I have complained to our school about a similar system in the past. Not Dojo, but another system where it is very public as to who has "gone up to silver or gold" for the day.

And yes, it's often the kid who DIDN'T throw a chair across the room for the first time in a week who goes up to gold, and the consistently well-behaved kids who remain in "green".

I'd rather they scrap the system, and just praise the children by speaking to them directly and looking them in the eye and smiling, instead of this very visible lauding and awarding.

@Forgothowmuchlhatehomeschoolin

My dd came home yesterday saying someone has won the class award for the week because she tried doing an extra maths challenge for the first time all year. My dd has been doing the extra ones every single week. And someone else got it last week for spelling some year 1 words correctly - they are now in Year 4. I explained that it is all relative and she should be proud of herself but l can see why she gets so frustrated because the other kids who get it are the naughty ones and it doesn't seem fair at all.

Working at a lower level than your daughter is not being a "naughty one"

Forest School isn't a reward for good behaviour. It's something that's been shown to be beneficial to all, but especially pupils who struggle to behave in class. Yes, in an ideal world everyone gets to go, but it's hard to take a whole class as smaller groups are better. So I can see why they chose the children they did.

I agree. For that child managing to spell year 1 words (when in year 4) could have been an amazing achievement and well deserving of a reward.

@KatherineOfGaunt

Forest School isn't a reward for good behaviour. It's something that's been shown to be beneficial to all, but especially pupils who struggle to behave in class. Yes, in an ideal world everyone gets to go, but it's hard to take a whole class as smaller groups are better. So I can see why they chose the children they did.

They should probably rotate the groups though. It doesn’t seem fair that one group gets to go and the rest just miss out.

'Star of the Week' mainly goes to a boy who has hit other pupils four times that week, rather than the usual ten, therefore showing positive behaviour. It's just how it is. It's a shame for the kids who are well behaved and try hard.

@Cattitudes

We had similar until one day the reception teacher called me over and said my dc had been unusually disobedient that week. Turned to dc standing next to me and asked why. They said that they had noticed that 'weekly top star of the wonderful universe award manky toy thing' always went to a child that had been doing something naughty for a while but then did something good, so they had planned to do something naughty for a while and then be good so that it would finally be their turn. Teacher shuffled somewhat uncomfortably. They got their turn next. Really don't miss that fake prize aspect for not being quite so bad that day of primary school. Secondary school, you misbehave you get detention rather than an award.

Re secondary school, sadly not. An awful lot of rewards for the wee shits who behave for one day and terrorise others (kids and teachers) all the rest of the time. Any glimmer of 'improvement' is greeted with a level of celebration and adulation that would normally accompany a Nobel prize.

@WhenwillSleephappen Agreed. I'd love Forest School to be for all, all the time!

@Myleftfoot39

I would prefer this compared to the current system. The child who won it today who was naughty has no SEN and is just very naughty. The school told the child to write a letter of apology which never happened and mum just said sorry to the other mum.

No such thing as a naughty child. We use dojo for things like manners or reading at home and they get certificates at milestones (50/100 etc). Then we have house points for good work, answering questions in class etc. The certificates are given out for every 25 they earn. Then we have class VIP on a Friday when every child gives one child a compliment (this is fixed one from the bottom of the reg then next week from the top, children don't realise this) and then Star of the week which sounds like your schools way of using Dojo. Not my cup of tea but that one is school wide.

From the perspective of a teacher - these things are not a level playing field. You cannot just give them to the “best” kids every week, because then the ones who don’t make the right choices would literally never get it. Sometimes you have to catch them doing something good one time in the week and then you give them the prize (whatever it is) to reinforce that. Nothing wrong with this. Kids are going to win it who you don’t think deserve it - what’s the alternative? They just never receive it and it cycles round the well behaved kids all year?

HOWEVER, I still think YANBU. I feel quite strongly about how careful teachers have to be not to forget about the quiet/consistently well behaved children (often girls but not always). It’s the same way that we cannot always shove them next to the challenging children to “help calm them down”, or always get them to help others with things they are good at. I am really careful to make sure that the children in my class who fall into this category are noticed and acknowledged every day. We have to give out a weekly certificate, but I also do other things in my class. The situation you describe is not good practice in my experience.

The “naughty” (hate that word) kids getting the dojo is only a problem if it’s clearly being used as a motivator to behave well for the children who don’t do that naturally, at the cost of those that do. In this situation, those quiet/well behaved children learn that there’s no point. I think YANBU.

It sounds like your ds is a ‘grey’ child. My ds was one too. The child that is always well behaved and does what they’re asked to do quietly and without a fuss. My ds is nearly 18 and whilst he doesn’t give primary school a second thought he has a very strong moral compass and hates unfairness of any kind and I think it stems from primary school. I hate with a passion schools that do this. I work at his school and could see it happening all the time. It does not pay to be well behaved and polite! I do now do my best to stand up for these ‘grey’ children and the school has run several projects to ensure these children have the chance to shine.

It may not be much help to you, but I believe things happen for a reason and whilst it’s hugely, massively unfair, your ds will most likely end up becoming a lovely, kind, thoughtful young man with a conscience! For your own mh you need to believe these things happen for a reason! I mean this very kindly as someone who used to get quite bitter about the situation on behalf of my ds. Also, if the teacher is useless to talk to - start with the Key Stage leader and work your way up to the Head.

@Cattitudes

We had similar until one day the reception teacher called me over and said my dc had been unusually disobedient that week. Turned to dc standing next to me and asked why. They said that they had noticed that 'weekly top star of the wonderful universe award manky toy thing' always went to a child that had been doing something naughty for a while but then did something good, so they had planned to do something naughty for a while and then be good so that it would finally be their turn. Teacher shuffled somewhat uncomfortably. They got their turn next. Really don't miss that fake prize aspect for not being quite so bad that day of primary school. Secondary school, you misbehave you get detention rather than an award.

That is brilliant!

My DC's primary has stopped this system as they realised that it causes more problems than it's worth.

Send an email to the teacher if you can't talk to her. Explain how he's feeling, that he's upset and demotivated and what he could do to get an award too.

Any decent teacher would ensure he got an award soon enough. A great teacher would've given him one already.

We have a lot of rewards in my schools but there's been a massive push in the recent years (from class teachers) to recognise and celebrate the good(and sometimes quiet ) kids too. SLT got on board so it's a lot easier now. However , Even before that all the teachers I worked with made sure the always good kids got recognition as well either by having their work on the wall,public praise in the classroom, little chats , mentioning to the parents etc.

One of my children has special needs (with no support yet - poor him and poor other kids), can’t complete homework (totally inappropriate level) etc. His school are big into rewards and sanctions, which are proven to kill internal/intrinsic motivation.

I strongly suggest you do all you can to help remove the ‘power’ of these rewards. Seriously prioritise your child’s sense in who they are and why they do what they do. Do they work hard for praise or because it is of benefit to them? Are they kind because it’s a school rule or because it’s morally right? When the motivation is intrinsic, others can’t rob you of it. Also avoids safeguards your child from people in authority in the future who may not have their best interests at heart.