To think this is really unfair (maternity leave related)?

[Blyatiful]

DH has a colleague who is on parental leave for eight months. He and his wife had a baby via a surrogate outside of U.K. Because his wife doesn’t work (she is an “artist” and sells the odd painting) he is taking all of the parental leave on full pay. If his wife had given birth, he would have qualified for a few weeks paternity leave, but as they outsourced the birth, the employer is treating it as adoption leave, and as his wife doesn’t work, he is being treated as the main parent.

I want to think, good on him, but my horrible side is taking over and I think it’s quite unfair (and don’t get me started on the ethics of surrogacy, which may also be skewing my views).

ou have literally no idea about the surrogates situation. Many surrogates do it because they feel it’s a nice thing to do. They aren’t buying a baby, they are at worst, renting a uterus

We know they went outside of the UK to use a foreign surrogate. If you can't extrapolate from that, I suggest you educate yourself on what surrogacy actually is.

You’re just bitter 🙄

@Sometimesfraught82 my question is irrelevant to what?

@PaperbackRider

Do the people who think surrogacy is disgusting also feel the same about adoption then?

Why would we, when they are in no way comparable?

How are they not comparable? They both involve someone else carrying a child and you then becoming that child’s parent after its born. Both are ways for infertile people to become parents? I think they are very comparable.

I know what surrogacy is, just because it was outside of the U.K. doesn’t mean you can extrapolate anything actually. I have many friends who are surrogates. Both here and abroad. They all do it willingly. You can’t assume.

The outcomes may be the same between surrogacy and adoption but the issue people have is everything that leads up to it and it’s obtuse to ignore that. People have a serious issue with disadvantaged women becoming little more than rentawombs and all the consequent health risks. Very different from a child in need being placed with loving parents.

If you think surrogacy and adoption are the same thing you're and idiot who understands neither

@Crocodilesoup

It's possible to have experienced infertility and miscarriage and still have major reservations about the use of surrogates.

@Crocodilesoup Fair enough if this in relation to your own choices. But you cannot then apply your own judgement/decisions onto another couple who have had a difficult journey to parenthood.

If anything, I'd have thought it would make you even more empthetic to their situation even you don't agree with surrogacy.

[quote OwlBeThere]@Sometimesfraught82 my question is irrelevant to what?[/quote]
@OwlBeThere

Just stop and think.
You really think surrogacy and adoption are one and the same?

But I don't just have empathy for the person desperate to have a baby. I have empathy for the women who carry this out, as there is so much that can go wrong and is unforeseeable even if it is an entirely free choice and not coerced or happening through desperation.
Everyone's safety and happiness counts.

@PaperbackRider

If you think surrogacy and adoption are the same thing you're and idiot who understands neither

Interesting. I’m an adoptive parent. And my sister has been a surrogate. Another sister has been an egg donor. I think I understand it quite well.

@Sometimesfraught82 no they aren’t one and the same, but they can be very similar.

It’s very reductive and stereotypical to reduce all surrogacies to ‘disadvantaged women being rents wombs’ and all adtoptions to ‘children in need being given to loving parents’. None of these things are necessarily true, or even often the case. Both are complex.

Well, no it isn't fair. But then lots of things to do with maternity/paternity/compassionate/sick leave is unfair. It really varies depending on your job and circumstances.

@PotteringAlong

If his wife had given birth, he would have qualified for a few weeks paternity leave

No, if his wife had given birth he would have qualified for shared parental leave, just the same as he is taking now.

This

[quote OwlBeThere]@Sometimesfraught82 no they aren’t one and the same, but they can be very similar.

It’s very reductive and stereotypical to reduce all surrogacies to ‘disadvantaged women being rents wombs’ and all adtoptions to ‘children in need being given to loving parents’. None of these things are necessarily true, or even often the case. Both are complex.[/quote]
Agreed
But this wasn’t even remotely what you said in that peculiar post asking whether op feels same about adoption as surrogacy.

Like saying do you feel the same about cheese as mango.

@Sometimesfraught82 I think you need to go back and re-read...because I didn’t ask the OP anything directly. I asked if ‘people’ who find surrogacy so disgusting also dislike adoption, it was a question as they are similar things. I didn’t say they were the same. I didn’t say much of anything in terms of my opinion actually. I simply asked a question.

dont hate the player - hate the game.

in other words - dont hate him - khate either the employers policies or legistlation

I was a supply teacher when we adopted our LO. My husband took 6 months adoption leave because he qualified and I didn't. Should we be discriminated against because I didn't give birth? Should he be discriminated against because he is a man?
If two man/two women adopted/had a surrogate, they could chose who received the main maternity benefit (or have shared if they chose). Why should a "normal" couple be denied this right?

@planesick

I was a supply teacher when we adopted our LO. My husband took 6 months adoption leave because he qualified and I didn't. Should we be discriminated against because I didn't give birth? Should he be discriminated against because he is a man? If two man/two women adopted/had a surrogate, they could chose who received the main maternity benefit (or have shared if they chose). Why should a "normal" couple be denied this right?

Absolutely! My ex took adoption leave when we adopted my son as I was already on maternity leave. It meant we were both home for 6 months to settle a child who’d had 5 foster homes in 2 years. It was a hard 6 months but so beneficial to our son.

[quote OwlBeThere]@Sometimesfraught82 I think you need to go back and re-read...because I didn’t ask the OP anything directly. I asked if ‘people’ who find surrogacy so disgusting also dislike adoption, it was a question as they are similar things. I didn’t say they were the same. I didn’t say much of anything in terms of my opinion actually. I simply asked a question.[/quote]
Yes and all posters who have commented on it are I a Indus

Utterly daft and irrelevant

Unanimous

@Sometimesfraught82, but I did do what you are accusing me of. I simply asked because I was curious, I will concede that it’s not really relevant to the OPs point, I just was surprised at how strongly some posters feelings were regarding surrogacy and wondered if they felt the same regarding adoption. It was a simple question asked due to sheer curiosity. Nothing more. I don’t think it’s daft given the blurred lines between the two in legal terms, and the similarities at times.

Didn’t* do.

It's wonderful that one parent has access to parental leave. Dh is self-employed and didn't get any paternity leave and wouldn't have qualified for shared parental leave...and he works 60 hours a week. Being self-employed is a real job, but doesn't come with the same rights as employment. They're fortunate to have one parent who is employed. How fantastic that he is bucking the trend. Hopefully more men at his place of employment will do the same.

[quote OwlBeThere]@Sometimesfraught82, but I did do what you are accusing me of. I simply asked because I was curious, I will concede that it’s not really relevant to the OPs point, I just was surprised at how strongly some posters feelings were regarding surrogacy and wondered if they felt the same regarding adoption. It was a simple question asked due to sheer curiosity. Nothing more. I don’t think it’s daft given the blurred lines between the two in legal terms, and the similarities at times.[/quote]
What are the “blurred lines” in legal terms you refer to?

@Sometimesfraught82

I didn’t mean legal terms, that’s a typo, i can’t think what word I meant now, but legal wasn’t it.
But anyway..
Well in the U.K. for instance, if you have a baby via surrogacy, even if it’s your embryo you have to legally adopt the child.
In the US (maybe other places I don’t know)you can pick a family to adopt your child before it’s born, and they will pay your medical bills which is very close to what a surrogate does. The only difference is you didn’t create the pregnancy, but you are definitely encouraging someone to have a baby they probably wouldn’t if you didn’t pay those bills/living expenses.
I fully understand and accept there are times when women work as surrogates because they are desperately in need of money. But in my sisters experiences as a surrogate and knowing other surrogate mothers, most of the ones I know are either doing it for a family member/close friend or they have had their own kids and want to help someone who can’t. I don’t accept this narrative that all surrogates are being forced into it out of desperation.
And conversely, I’ve known plenty of young girls who choose adoption because they don’t want to terminate but also realise they can’t raise a baby so they choose to have it adopted and I know many who have struggled later with this decision, I don’t personally know many surrogates who regret it, that can’t be said of all birth parents in an adoption.

All that being said; I simply asked why previous posters don’t consider adoption wrong but surrogacy is. I wanted to know why people see them so differently. Wanting to understand why people believe something is never daft or pointless or whatever else you said. I’m an adoptive parent and I don’t see them as being hugely different in an adoption for birth, where birth parents are chosen before the birth scenario.