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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is really unfair (maternity leave related)?

176 replies

Blyatiful · 26/05/2021 18:27

DH has a colleague who is on parental leave for eight months. He and his wife had a baby via a surrogate outside of U.K. Because his wife doesn’t work (she is an “artist” and sells the odd painting) he is taking all of the parental leave on full pay. If his wife had given birth, he would have qualified for a few weeks paternity leave, but as they outsourced the birth, the employer is treating it as adoption leave, and as his wife doesn’t work, he is being treated as the main parent.

I want to think, good on him, but my horrible side is taking over and I think it’s quite unfair (and don’t get me started on the ethics of surrogacy, which may also be skewing my views).

OP posts:
DeusEx · 26/05/2021 19:37

Ah come on, @CaptainOatFlosser - that’s just designed to derail the thread onto surrogacy which OP said she didn’t want to happen...

FatLadySang · 26/05/2021 19:37

I am freelance but my partner qualified for shared parental as long as I gave up my SMA for the same period. A no-brainer for us as SMA is really low and partner earns way more than that each week.

Scottishskifun · 26/05/2021 19:38

It's called shared parental leave and is in the law to allow for both parents time with a child.
Not sure why it annoys you or you think it's unfair?!
I did shared parental leave with my DH and it was fantastic and he bonded really well as well as caring for our son.

Scottishskifun · 26/05/2021 19:40

Also it is available to all fathers shared parental leave is in law it's just that people don't know to ask for it and many companies HRs keep it quiet but yes it's completely allowed in any company!

Brefugee · 26/05/2021 19:42

I’m not being nasty, it just feels a bit off to me.

you sound jealous. It is about time men took lots of lovely parental leave, regardless of what their partner do (or don't do) for a job. And maybe in 30 or 40 years time, women won't be being penalised when going for jobs in case they run off and have babies and then stay home with them because women are paid badly.

MindyStClaire · 26/05/2021 19:49

Leaving aside the surrogacy issue, consider how you'd feel about the following:

  1. A lesbian couple in their shoes, one of the women taking leave.
  1. A gay (male) couple in their shoes, one of the men taking leave.
  1. A straight couple where the man was self employed and the woman took parental leave analogous to maternity leave even if she hadn't given birth.

I think in the case of 3 in particular, no one would bat an eyelid.

roguetomato · 26/05/2021 19:51

If the company allows the parents to have parental leave, why does it bother you? I think it's great that they can share the early days of child's life.

OwlBeThere · 26/05/2021 19:52

Legally it is an adoption. If she didn’t give birth then it matters not who’s egg it was, they still have to legally adopt the baby.

GreenMeeple · 26/05/2021 19:52

his wife doesn’t work

she is an “artist” and sells the odd painting

his non-working wife

men whose wives don’t work, or who work freelance,

Why so judgmental towards this woman? You know nothing about her workload or income. Is it because she is an artist and in your eyes that's not a "proper" job?

It could have taken years for her to build up a steady client base and taking several months maternity leaves could cost her loyal clients and set her back years and have a long term impact on her income. So it could be a very logical choice for him to become the main caregiver if he has a stable job to return to.

LovePoppy · 26/05/2021 19:53

[quote Blyatiful]@PotteringAlong ah OK! But I thought both parents needed to be employed for shared parental leave.

I’m not being nasty, it just feels a bit off to me.[/quote]
Except that you are being nasty.

PerhapsCarriageGreen · 26/05/2021 19:54

Apart from anything else, dismissing her as an artist is unkind.

ejhhhhh · 26/05/2021 19:56

But that's just not the case. He would be entitled to shared parental leave, regardless of whether his wife works or not. If his wife had given birth but didn't work, so the leave didn't need to be shared, he could take almost a year's leave to himself. So the exact same situation that they're in now. What's unfair about it? All couples are entitled to the same under shared parental leave.

Laydeechez · 26/05/2021 19:56

Why dont you just say you’re jealous & just leave it at that?

FunMcCool · 26/05/2021 19:58

He could have done this even if his wife gave birth. She could have gone back to her art after two weeks and he would have qualified for shared parental leave. I know a man ok parental leave as his wife went back to work at 4 months. He’s got 6 months off full pay. They are both parents it works for them. You’re being judgey and old fashioned.

OwlBeThere · 26/05/2021 19:58

@SnackSizeRaisin

But if, as people are saying, they would get that on shared parental leave, then that’s fine and I accept that I am wrong and unreasonable.

They wouldn't. Shared parental leave only applies if the mother is entitled to maternity leave. She has to donate some of her mat leave to her partner. If she doesn't work then her partner can't share her leave

But she does work, and if she meets the conditions for MA then she can do SPL.
ThisMustBeMyDream · 26/05/2021 20:01

@ejhhhhh that isn't true. The woman has to work for the man to get shared parental leave. Otherwise he can only have the standard 2 weeks paternity leave.
I wish people would check their facts before posting them as truths.

AdriannaP · 26/05/2021 20:04

None of your business. I think it’s great a father wants to spend that much time on parental leave.

If it’s surrogacy, doesn’t the baby have to be officially adopted.
Also you sound very judgmental about the wife. Do you have inside knowledge about her work/sales? even if she doesn’t sell painting she can still be working!

AnyOldPrion · 26/05/2021 20:04

@ejhhhhh

But that's just not the case. He would be entitled to shared parental leave, regardless of whether his wife works or not. If his wife had given birth but didn't work, so the leave didn't need to be shared, he could take almost a year's leave to himself. So the exact same situation that they're in now. What's unfair about it? All couples are entitled to the same under shared parental leave.
Don’t both parents have to be working? How can it be “shared leave” if only one partner is taking it because the other isn’t working? I’m in a Scandi country where maternity and paternity benefits are very good. If the mother isn’t working, I’m fairly sure the father doesn’t get the usual three (or occasionally more) months off that fathers usually take.

I’m a bit torn, OP. In general, I think all fathers should get more paternity leave, but if her art is more of a hobby than a career, it would feel to me as if they’re taking advantage of the system. Not sure why so many people are so scandalized by the suggestion it’s unfair. It’s not unfair to the OP. If people abuse the support systems that exist, it’s unfair on everyone who pays tax.

Chewbecca · 26/05/2021 20:08

Shared parental leave would be available in my workplace for this scenario as well as if you had a baby via a conventional route.

Overitallnow · 26/05/2021 20:09

Yeah I'm with you OP. Sounds like working the system to me.

MimiDaisy11 · 26/05/2021 20:10

@CaptainOatFlosser

Are people against surrogacy? I’ve not heard this before but there seems to be some comments on here that suggest it’s a bad thing?
Yes, some people dislike cash being exchanged for babies and often poor vulnerable women being used to make babies for well off people. There are plenty of horrible stories of poor women in third world countries being left with a child because the buyers decided they didn't want the child anymore - usually because of medical issues.
Maggiesfarm · 26/05/2021 20:18

I understand how you feel about surrogacy, op, but what's done is done. Your employer is being absolutely fair to treat this as adoption.

It is a great pity that people at work know about this but I suppose it can't be helped.

Why did you put 'artist' in inverted commas? The man's wife is either an artist or not.

ExhaustedFlamingo · 26/05/2021 20:22

There are lots of other comments/threads rightly pointing out the inequality between the sexes, and the rampant unfairness that childcare always falls on the woman.....this man has taken months off work so he can fully participate in family life and presumably share the care - and you think this is what you think is "off"?? No. This is how things should be. A baby is not the woman's sole responsibility and in this country we don't do enough to encourage male partners to take a more active role.

This is fab. And yes, you are being nasty - and I think deep down, you know you are, no matter how you try to justify it.

grapewine · 26/05/2021 20:30

Why the " around artist when you have no actual clue about how much she's selling?

This attitude to art pisses me off. On the other point: life isn't fair.

ExhaustedFlamingo · 26/05/2021 20:30

@AnyOldPrion - there are really strict criteria which has to be met for shared parental leave, including a minimum earnings threshold. To be eligible this man's wife must be doing more than selling the "odd" painting. The OP is being disingenuous about what the wife does. As I said above, it's just nasty.

With shared parental leave, you decide how you split it between you. If one person wants to take it all, they can. There's no abuse of the system going on here.