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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is really unfair (maternity leave related)?

176 replies

Blyatiful · 26/05/2021 18:27

DH has a colleague who is on parental leave for eight months. He and his wife had a baby via a surrogate outside of U.K. Because his wife doesn’t work (she is an “artist” and sells the odd painting) he is taking all of the parental leave on full pay. If his wife had given birth, he would have qualified for a few weeks paternity leave, but as they outsourced the birth, the employer is treating it as adoption leave, and as his wife doesn’t work, he is being treated as the main parent.

I want to think, good on him, but my horrible side is taking over and I think it’s quite unfair (and don’t get me started on the ethics of surrogacy, which may also be skewing my views).

OP posts:
mam0918 · 26/05/2021 18:59

@PotteringAlong

If his wife had given birth, he would have qualified for a few weeks paternity leave

No, if his wife had given birth he would have qualified for shared parental leave, just the same as he is taking now.

But if she is self employed or unemployed (like OP said) or zero contracted they wouldnt class as getting shared leave for a normal birth - both parents have to be employed to qualify.

He is taking full maternity leave by the sounds of the OP because his wife is unemployed/self employed and they are classing it as 'adoption' but thats not how it works.

ThisMustBeMyDream · 26/05/2021 18:59

OP is correct in that the woman would have to work for the partner to be eligible for shared parental leave.
This parent is getting something through a loophole. Seems unfair on other parents who would love this.

midsomermurderess · 26/05/2021 19:01

You have quite a tone about you, very sneering: 'artist' 'outsourcing' the pregnancy. It's hard to get on board with someone as unpleasant as you appear to be.

HalzTangz · 26/05/2021 19:01

[quote Blyatiful]@WorraLiberty I guess my thought was that men whose wives don’t work, or who work freelance, wouldn’t have the opportunity to take this much leave in full pay. But if, as people are saying, they would get that on shared parental leave, then that’s fine and I accept that I am wrong and unreasonable.[/quote]
Surely its up to the company whether he gets leave or not, it's nothing to do with anyone else at all, including his colleagues. Do mean start moany forums when women take up to a year off, no they don't, so what gives the right to question if he's allowed the time off. Clearly he is or the business would have Denied his application for leave.
It really grinds on me when people like you think you can poke your nose in and judge people. You have judged him twice, one for using a surrogate and one for taking leave

wannabebetter · 26/05/2021 19:04

But neither of them has given birth so why should it be assumed that the woman should take the leave? What if they were both women? Would you begrudge the employed one claiming the benefit they are legally entitled to?

CoffeeCakey · 26/05/2021 19:04

Wouldn't the surrogate mother be the one getting maternity leave and the non surrogate mother would get adoption leave if she was working?

Original poster
Blyatiful · 26/05/2021 19:05

I’ve accepted I am being unreasonable, and apologise if my turn of phrase has upset people. English is not my mother tongue.

OP posts:
SuperMonkeys · 26/05/2021 19:07

Yup, I'm with you OP. Leaving the shittyness of surrogacy aside, as she does t work he wouldn't normally get shared parental leave. It isn't an adoption as isn't an adoption.

CoffeeCakey · 26/05/2021 19:08

@SuperMonkeys

Yup, I'm with you OP. Leaving the shittyness of surrogacy aside, as she does t work he wouldn't normally get shared parental leave. It isn't an adoption as isn't an adoption.
But she wouldn't be giving birth so wouldn't be getting maternity leave. Or would she? I'm confused now!
GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 26/05/2021 19:09

Art is work.

Happyhappyday · 26/05/2021 19:09

@Blyatiful I was the birth parent and my DH took 4 months parental leave. It’s legal and FANTASTIC to see a man actually taking the leave! Your reaction is really disappointing.

Crunchymum · 26/05/2021 19:10

How do you know so much about their personal life @Blyatiful?

You know its a biological surrogacy, how many paintings the mother has sold (I suspect she may object to your use of " " around artist) and the length of parental leave. How do you know this?

Is your DH a horrible gossip?

Loki01 · 26/05/2021 19:10

People are getting jealous of someone's parental leave? Bloody hell...

Fishandhips · 26/05/2021 19:11

@Blyatiful

I think my feeling of unfairness is that if his non-working wife had had the baby, he wouldn’t have been given more than two weeks paternity leave.
Potentially he would have though, some companies do allow the father to take the full maternity leave if their wife doesn't work and isn't taking it. I worked with a man who did just that.
Ofallthethings · 26/05/2021 19:12

I don't understand why you thought because she's an "artist" that she doesn't work. She's probably self employed then , and if she had actually been pregnant would only qualify for maternity allowance which I think is the same as SMP I.e. not very much
. I wouldn't assume he's getting full pay either, it depends on the company's policy, he'll probably be on SMP at some point which is not enough to sustain an entire family and she might continue to work and sell paintings to keep them afloat. Financially it sounds like they've done it the way that maximises their income which is all anyone does when they start their family.

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 26/05/2021 19:13

But be honest, if the shoe was on the other foot surely most people would take this opportunity?!

Original poster
Blyatiful · 26/05/2021 19:14

@Crunchymum I’ve no idea how many paintings she has sold. Please don’t make things up. I know about the surrogacy as DH told me. And he also told me about the length of the leave, although it may have been six months, not eight.

OP posts:
Original poster
Blyatiful · 26/05/2021 19:17

@Fishandhips I think my badly expressed point was that it is unfair that this isn’t available to all fathers, but great that some companies are allowing this.

OP posts:
Fishandhips · 26/05/2021 19:20

[quote Blyatiful]@Fishandhips I think my badly expressed point was that it is unfair that this isn’t available to all fathers, but great that some companies are allowing this.[/quote]
I think that's the case with mat leave as a whole. I got 6 months full pay, 3 months half pay, I could keep my job on no pay but return to it at the level I left within 5 years, whereas others get 6 weeks or whatever it is then shitty SMP.

SoupDragon · 26/05/2021 19:26

I’ve no idea how many paintings she has sold. Please don’t make things up

So why did you say she "sells the odd painting" ?

JediGnot · 26/05/2021 19:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

bevelino · 26/05/2021 19:30

OP, it is absolutely none of your business. Why is it bothering you?

Ted27 · 26/05/2021 19:30

@Blyatiful

the surrogate is the legal parent at birth, if they have a partner, they are the second legal parent.
therefore the parents do have to adopt the child

when you adopt either the mother or the father can take the adoption leave, or they can share it

parents can now opt to share maternity leave, its a legal right available to all parents
I know several men who have shared the leave 50 50 with the mother

Crunchymum · 26/05/2021 19:34

[quote Blyatiful]@Crunchymum I’ve no idea how many paintings she has sold. Please don’t make things up. I know about the surrogacy as DH told me. And he also told me about the length of the leave, although it may have been six months, not eight.[/quote]
@Blyatiful

You said in your very first post:
"(she is an “artist” and sells the odd painting)"

So please don't accuse me of making things up.

CaptainOatFlosser · 26/05/2021 19:36

Are people against surrogacy? I’ve not heard this before but there seems to be some comments on here that suggest it’s a bad thing?