To think modern life is shit for mums

[barelycoping1]

I have a 1 year old son and would give anything to be a SAHM. I don’t want to put him in nursery or with a childminder, I’m his mum and I want to bring him up myself - not pay someone else to do it. I want to spend every precious moment with him because he’s our first and last and I’ll never get to experience this special time again.

Sadly though I have no choice but to return to work so we can pay our mortgage and bills. I don’t earn that much more than the cost of nursery, but it is about £350 difference every month so worth it.

I just feel sad that I don’t have a choice in the matter thanks to the sodding cost of living and sky high rents/mortgages now. I wish we were back in the days where one salary could easily cover the mortgage on an average home. Hose prices have essentially adjusted now to mean that both parents need to work to keep a roof over their heads.

Also because I’m back at work, my free time is a constant battle trying to keep the house in order and deal with life admin. I’ve lost touch with quite a few friends because I have so little time.

AIBU to hate the fact that I have to go back to work and to feel sad that I’m missing out on time with my son? I know some people will say to find a job I love, but there’s no job in the world that I’d rather do than be a SAHM.

I feel so stretched all the time and like I’m on a hamster wheel and can’t get off. If this is what having it all means then it’s just shit, sorry. What can I do to change my life for the better?

he sky high price of houses is ridiculous. they need to come down and I say that as a home owner

As a fellow home owner I agree. The market is completely distorted.

@barelycoping1

Is your partner doing 50% of the domestic load?

I do about 80% of it I'd say, because DH works far longer hours than me.

Well there is your problem to start with. Because it’s likely to also be more than 80% thanks to the mental load too.

You see, I see this as the reason for so many divorces.
Nowhere in this scenario is the mention of a partner, spend your time on kids and work and your partner will look for intimacy somewhere else. Neither have much time on either kids or spousal relationships.

What a load of crap.

I have the opposite problem. I'm a SAHM and would love to work but I'm not trained for any job that would pay well enough to cover the cost of nursery.
Full time nursery for both my kids would be £24k a year and there's no way I'd earn that.
My plan is to wait until my oldest is in school and then start training for something.
I love being a SAHM but I'm exhausted beyond belief and hate that I have to ask my husband for every penny I need.
He earns a good wage so we're not entitled to any benefits, not even child benefit. I feel like a child always asking for money. It's humiliating.

I totally agree with you and personally for me, I always knew that when I had kids I would do everything and anything I could to be with them all day. I firmly didn’t want to be working (not full time anyway)
I gave up my job when my first was born because they turned down any part time options and the hours were long starting from 7am every day, no exceptions.
We were lucky though because we bought a house back in 2004 when it was much cheaper. However when I gave up work we only moved to an area that we could afford on one salary. To be honest, I would have moved into a 1 bed flat if it meant no being away from my baby all week.
When they started school it was much easier to have more time for work.
Options are working part time as a compromise, move to a cheaper area and finding a side job from home in the evenings or working another job in the evenings (I know other mums who have done this)
I fully sympathise. Those years are so short and believe me I treasured every moment and squeezed every drop from the experience. To me it was worth more than anything else to be with the kids

£350 a month is about £87/week, is it possible you could find some evening or weekend work that would earn you that amount (or close) while your partner looks after your baby?

I know the downside is it might not maintain your career in the same way, but if time with your baby is your priority and you just need enough to pay the mortgage, it could work.

@Houseofvelour

I have the opposite problem. I'm a SAHM and would love to work but I'm not trained for any job that would pay well enough to cover the cost of nursery. Full time nursery for both my kids would be £24k a year and there's no way I'd earn that. My plan is to wait until my oldest is in school and then start training for something. I love being a SAHM but I'm exhausted beyond belief and hate that I have to ask my husband for every penny I need. He earns a good wage so we're not entitled to any benefits, not even child benefit. I feel like a child always asking for money. It's humiliating.

Do you not just have a joint account? If not, I just used to take my husbands card when I went out and knew I was buying something more than a few pounds (or now you can put it on apply pay) My husband and I I also agreed a monthly amount he had direct debited to my account each month so I had money for what the kids and I needed?

@Devlesko

You see, I see this as the reason for so many divorces. Nowhere in this scenario is the mention of a partner, spend your time on kids and work and your partner will look for intimacy somewhere else. Neither have much time on either kids or spousal relationships. I think we've gone backwards tbh, and if this is modern living I'm glad to be old fashioned with a life

What a load of rubbish.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion??? Bizarre jump.

[quote Blossominspring2021]@thepeopleversuswork I agree we should not be pitching against each other as women. Being a SAHM has been much better for my second child however my first child thrived in nursery, and anyway I didn’t have a choice. However when I do complain about my lack of financial security women friends tell me to ‘go get a job’. Rather than ‘kick your husband up the arse to financially provide better’. Really SAHMs and working mum’s are almost always having to do way more than their fair share, it’s not just within marriage, it’s in society and at work too - it is still very much a system that doesn’t value women as mothers - in work or out.

Very, very rarely, a woman has a stay at home husband who does everything including housework and managing, and their work is very family friendly - or they are properly valued and provided for if a SAHM by their spouse. Mostly that isn’t the case.[/quote]
I sort of agree with you except that I would say its a system which doesn't value parents as opposed to mothers.

I've seen the argument a lot both on here and elsewhere that our society doesn't value the role of a mother.

It's true to the extent mothers do vast amounts of hugely important unpaid work and have low social status.

But the problem with that statement is that by suggesting a mother has intrinsic value which a father doesn't have, you perpetuate the idea that its a role which is fundamentally only suited to women. And then you disadvantage all women. Working women: because they struggle to advance and earn equal to men and don't get support with childcare -- but ultimately non-working women too: because it perpetuates the lower status that all women have in society and the perception we have of women who don't work continues to be that of one whose role is only to support others.

The solution to this isn't to put "motherhood" (as opposed to parenthood) on a pedestal. It's to make sure that we have a genuinely equal distribution of money and work between men and women. Not necessary for every individual family, but for society at large.

@thepeopleversuswork

As an aside, I hate the phrase “someone else raising my child”. A kid going to nursery is not having someone else raising them, you still raise them

This. Carved in stone. Its the most bone-headed, knee-jerk bit of twattish goadery and I'm sick of it.

I have no choice but to use nursery/childminders because I'm a single parent. My daughter barely remembers the carers at the first nursery she went to, from the ages of one to five. Even though I've used FT childcare almost throughout her childhood.

There's plenty of goadery on both sides of this debate and the WOHMs can be guilty of this but this is just an ignorant insult and I wish people would keep this sort of thing to themselves.

It’s not twattish goadery. For some mums who feel strongly about wanting to be with their children all day, handing over responsibilities for 40-50 hours a week when the child might only be awake for 80 Hours a week does feel like someone else is getting to see more of your child than you are

@Blossominspring2021

“ mHowever when I do complain about my lack of financial security women friends tell me to ‘go get a job’. Rather than ‘kick your husband up the arse to financially provide better’“

I’m struggling with this. Do you genuinely think the latter would have been a more appropriate response? He’s already providing for an entire household, and not every job has limitless earning potential. Like it or not, it’s the social norm in England in 2021 for both parents to contribute something financially to the household coffers. So your friends weren’t exactly being obtuse or ‘out there’ to suggest you contribute financially too if you were openly telling them you were financially insecure.

@OnTheBrink1 I have a weekly allowance of £50 but that doesn't always cover the cost of what I need. I can't wait to have my own money so I can contribute to the bills and mortgage and can buy myself a new bra without having to run it by my husband.
He's really good and will almost always say yes but we don't have a lot of spare money.

[quote Houseofvelour]@OnTheBrink1 I have a weekly allowance of £50 but that doesn't always cover the cost of what I need. I can't wait to have my own money so I can contribute to the bills and mortgage and can buy myself a new bra without having to run it by my husband.
He's really good and will almost always say yes but we don't have a lot of spare money.[/quote]
So sit down and agree a bigger amount that covers cost of new bra.
Does he buy new pants when he needs to?

@thepeopleversuswork I would like to believe that we are at a stage where society doesn’t value parents, but all my experience and all the evidence points to it being overwhelmingly mothers who get the raw deal. Caring for children should be a valued role and it’s not at all.

I’m not suggesting that men couldn’t be as good a parent, however in most cases they don’t. I don’t know if that is just a case of nurture not setting them up to be that, but it just isn’t happening. The number of fathers who take up paternity leave (even for two weeks) is tiny. The number of fathers who take time off for medical appointments as opposed to their working wives is again, is tiny. As experienced by many women and parents, most mothers’ do more parenting than fathers, even if they have similar jobs with similar hours.

So it’s not a case of putting motherhood on a pedestal. But it is a case of recognising that at the moment, mother’s are doing the main parenting and that brings with it a particular pressure on one of the sexes, women. Recognising that will help. We can bring in all the parternity leave or things to help ‘parent’s’ equally but it is mother’s who need the support and recognition more at present because it’s just the way it is. Recognising this, instead of fooling ourselves that it is a ‘parenting value’ rather than predominantly a lack of value of women should more clearly pave the way for better policies. One hopes!

OnTheBrink1

It’s not twattish goadery. For some mums who feel strongly about wanting to be with their children all day, handing over responsibilities for 40-50 hours a week when the child might only be awake for 80
Hours a week does feel like someone else is getting to see more of your child than you are.

It is pretty goady when some of us have no choice. What is to be gained by making mums who don't have the choice feel worse?

And it isn't rational: over the lifetime that a child spends living with its parents, it is going to spend far less time with those nursery staff than with the parent. So the basic maths don't add up. And the anecdotal experience of most mothers is that children form lifelong bonds with parents, less so with childminders. So the concern is not really justified.

It's totally understandable that people feel emotional about leaving small children with childminders: most mothers who have worked have felt this. What's far less reasonable is turning into a moral high ground for women who have had the good fortune not to have to make these choices.

For some mums who feel strongly about wanting to be with their children all day, handing over responsibilities for 40-50 hours a week when the child might only be awake for 80 Hours a week does feel like someone else is getting to see more of your child than you are

I only find this a bit odd because surely it's a very modern expectation to have to be with you child & doing stuff with them all day. My gran never worked out of the home but she had 7 dc & no dishwasher, washer/dryer, microwave etc so didn't spend much time with the dc.

My mum didn't work either but I was always with my aunties or granny.

[quote Blossominspring2021]@thepeopleversuswork I would like to believe that we are at a stage where society doesn’t value parents, but all my experience and all the evidence points to it being overwhelmingly mothers who get the raw deal. Caring for children should be a valued role and it’s not at all.

I’m not suggesting that men couldn’t be as good a parent, however in most cases they don’t. I don’t know if that is just a case of nurture not setting them up to be that, but it just isn’t happening. The number of fathers who take up paternity leave (even for two weeks) is tiny. The number of fathers who take time off for medical appointments as opposed to their working wives is again, is tiny. As experienced by many women and parents, most mothers’ do more parenting than fathers, even if they have similar jobs with similar hours.

So it’s not a case of putting motherhood on a pedestal. But it is a case of recognising that at the moment, mother’s are doing the main parenting and that brings with it a particular pressure on one of the sexes, women. Recognising that will help. We can bring in all the parternity leave or things to help ‘parent’s’ equally but it is mother’s who need the support and recognition more at present because it’s just the way it is. Recognising this, instead of fooling ourselves that it is a ‘parenting value’ rather than predominantly a lack of value of women should more clearly pave the way for better policies. One hopes![/quote]
But this is my point. The reason many men don't make such good parents is because they don't have. Because there's usually a woman at home doing all of this for them. Often, on top of a FT job.

And the reason for this is the lack of status women have in society generally, and the lack of financial independence.

People do recognise that mothers shoulder most of this burden. But the solution to changing this isn't to eulogise the value the mother. Its to get the fathers to pull their fingers out.

@DelBocaVista

I don't believe "society" tells us that, at all. Not any more. I don't know anyone under the age of 70 who thinks housework and childcare is just for women.

Then how do you explain the fact that women disproportionately took on the bulk of childcare and home-schooling during the last 14 months? Even when they were also working.......

Exactly. You might not want to believe society says that, but the evidence tells us otherwise.

However when I do complain about my lack of financial security women friends tell me to ‘go get a job’. Rather than ‘kick your husband up the arse to financially provide better’. Really SAHMs and working mum’s are almost always having to do way more than their fair share, it’s not just within marriage, it’s in society and at work too - it is still very much a system that doesn’t value women as mothers - in work or out.

Christ, the entitlement here! Yes, clearly if you have a couple with only one person working, the obvious response is for the person not working to get a job. Your friends are entirely correct.

It is well known through psychology studies that women tend to nurture more than men hence why you see more female nurses rather than males etc obviously not everybody is like that but the vast majority are so this must be a biological thing.

And it isn't rational: over the lifetime that a child spends living with its parents, it is going to spend far less time with those nursery staff than with the parent. So the basic maths don't add up. And the anecdotal experience of most mothers is that children form lifelong bonds with parents, less so with childminders. So the concern is not really justified.

Exactly
The parents are there though out
The teachers come and go
Do you remember your childhood for the weekend walks with mum and dad or the camping trips with them...or all the teachers ?
The parents decide the big decisions and upbringing

When our Mum's and Grans fought to be able to have children and work, they thought the household chores would be split 50/50, obviously that didn't happen. They never guessed how property prices would rise because couples could put in higher offers because they had 2 wages coming in. They couldn't imagine how much it would tear our hearts in two to put our baby into full daycare. They thought they were opening the world for future Mum's, they never knew how much worse it would make our lives, how much pressure would be heaped on our shoulders. Sometimes you should be careful what you wish for.