To think modern life is shit for mums

[barelycoping1]

I have a 1 year old son and would give anything to be a SAHM. I don’t want to put him in nursery or with a childminder, I’m his mum and I want to bring him up myself - not pay someone else to do it. I want to spend every precious moment with him because he’s our first and last and I’ll never get to experience this special time again.

Sadly though I have no choice but to return to work so we can pay our mortgage and bills. I don’t earn that much more than the cost of nursery, but it is about £350 difference every month so worth it.

I just feel sad that I don’t have a choice in the matter thanks to the sodding cost of living and sky high rents/mortgages now. I wish we were back in the days where one salary could easily cover the mortgage on an average home. Hose prices have essentially adjusted now to mean that both parents need to work to keep a roof over their heads.

Also because I’m back at work, my free time is a constant battle trying to keep the house in order and deal with life admin. I’ve lost touch with quite a few friends because I have so little time.

AIBU to hate the fact that I have to go back to work and to feel sad that I’m missing out on time with my son? I know some people will say to find a job I love, but there’s no job in the world that I’d rather do than be a SAHM.

I feel so stretched all the time and like I’m on a hamster wheel and can’t get off. If this is what having it all means then it’s just shit, sorry. What can I do to change my life for the better?

OP

I think that that women's rights (to work and earn and have equality at work) made it easier for the right wing neo-liberal extreme free-marketeers to erode real wages, as it is easier to erode wages when typical families have two earners not one.

The end result is that we are now in a position where households need two jobs to earn one proper wage, which means living in poverty and bringing up your child, or living close to poverty and outsourcing child care.

@PaperbackRider

The woman talks about juggling work, raising the kids, cooking, housework, admin - where the fuck is her partner in all of this? Why do so many of us accept this bullshittery? Raising a family and running a home with another person is a partnership. We all deserve to be with someone who takes responsibility for their share of the work

You might accept it, I don't. Why would I? My DH does more than half the housework and at least 50% of the kid work. I work longer hours.

If you're not with someone who does half, who is that on except you and him?

I agree! But society tells us that housework and raising children is 'women's work' and therefore by extension, not worthy of being paid. It's double pronged misogyny. Most women, even if they work (as in an official job) part time end up doing far more actual work than their partners and as a final insult don't get paid for it - even though it keeps the goddamn world turning. Where would the men be without women's unpaid labour?

My partner regularly works long hours. I could do all the housework but I refuse because a) why should I work for free and b) it would be terrible for our relationship. So we employ a cleaner. I get that we're lucky to be able to afford to do that. But I think women have to start pushing back on this. Unless we start saying no, nothing will change. Why would it?

To me "having it all" means you are working in a job you enjoy that is well paid and flexible enough to allow you to never feel you are missing out on any time whatsoever with your children, and you never feel like you are torn between the world of work and the world of children.

If people on this thread feel they have both, fair play to you!

Be careful what you wish for, when I had my first child I desperately wanted to be a SAHM, and I was, loved it when she was tiny but hated it as she grew up. Went on to have 2 more and then went back to work. Yes it was hard , no paternity leave, no right to time off, even unpaid with ill children, even less acceptable for fathers. But to a certain extent, I wasn’t able to compare my life with others, no social media etc. No one to tell me I was being cruel if I had a really strict bedtime routine, I could carve out sometime to read a book etc as I expected the dc’s to occupy themselves. Didn’t really do a huge amount of playing with them, the odd jigsaw, board game and lots of reading to them but very few role play games. I didn’t have Instagram to worry me about how uncrafty I was.😀
I do regret taking 8 years off work, my pension is shit and it took me ages to build any semblance of a career back up. There many years of life left when the children have flown the nest and I would find it very dull now if I didn’t have work.

I think you need to give it 3 month minimum before you can call it either way. Probably more like 6. It's a big adjustment to go back to a work world you previously inhabited as a childless person where you aren't restricted.

I get it's shite totally. I did the same as you

As for your question about people working from home with kids around mostly.
It doesn't work. It had to work during lock down but it's shite for everyone- you /kids/ work output. I am unimpressed with any team members continuing to do this now we are out of lockdown. They are just unproductive and being interrupted all the time. I would not employ someone who did not have child care in place.

@barelycoping1

Your OH should have planned this better too. After all, you're a person, not a slave. Why isn't he recognising that you have too much on your plate to enjoy your child and your life and stepping up to take some of it off your shoulders?

He works very long hours so not sure how that would be possible really. I think we both just don't know how to make life easier for and more enjoyabel for ourselves, though this thread has given me some ideas.

Sorry OP, the long hours thing is bollocks. You have a DH problem.

1. Why is he working crazy hours, and yet you're still finding yourself hard up? Can't he find something with a better work/life balance? If he's in banking/consulting and pulling the 90 hour weeks then you should have hot and cold running staff to help you out, or at the very least a cleaner.

2. My DH works for a gigantic, somewhat conservative investment bank and still manages to do things like do the shopping, organize building work on our home and book, take DS to the doctor and dentist and book the odd holiday.

TBH, he often does more of that stuff then me because he gets lauded as a good dad by his superiors. Once he got praised by the CFO of the entire bloody bank on an all hands call for doing a Zoom presentation to the C Suite while also cuddling baby DS when we were on hard COVID lockdown. Can't see a woman getting the same praise, so make sexism work for you.

I work full time and my DH is a partner. I'm his wife, not a skivvy.

[quote ChangePart1]@DelBocaVista

I’ve never witnessed a discussion about men trying to have it all .......and I research this for a living!

I suspect that’s because men in general tend to talk openly about their emotions and struggles less frequently than women. They tend to bottle it up, feel an immense pressure to be ‘the provider’. As I mentioned in a previous post my DH certainly finds trying to juggle work, child, family, relationship, and time for himself difficult. He would say it’s very difficult to have it all unless you have family support nearby for the kids. He can’t be alone in feeling that way, we’ve taken steps to help him cope and get more time to himself but he would never feel okay going and being alone for a bit or relaxing while our child is awake because he believes he needs to be with him and caring for him. He can’t be the only one. Life is tough balancing everything for men and women but the pressures are different depending on whether you feel the household’s financial survival depends on you, vs whether you feel you’re taking on the brunt of the mental load and childcare/housework.

In my line of work I talk to people intimately about very personal things regularly and though I see more women than men (there’s a much greater stigma against men seeking help), it’s certainly not uncommon to talk to men who really struggle with juggling work and a family, let alone other demands.[/quote]
I suspect it's more to do with societal expectations around childcare and work.

There is an expectation from a large number of people that women will be less career focussed when they have children.

Women's career patterns are discussed in a way men's aren't ( me and dh worked together when I had DS- only I was asked about whether I was going to go p/t and only I got comments about how awful it was that I had to work f/t)

Men aren't criticised for working f/t, nobody ever uses the phrase 'dad guilt' and I've never heard people tell men that it's all their fault for wanting it all.

Re the PP who said that career women are not bothered about crafting and baking with their children, you do realise we can do those things on weekends and holidays? I don't think many people judge their childhood based on Monday- Friday 9-5 only

No but I do remember the lovely times I had with my mum when she was at home during the week. I remember her having to do a load of housework and shopping etc at weekends.

I love being a SAHM (and home educating) because our time isn't so confined to weekends. That never felt like enough time to me.

My mother worked. My grandmothers both worked. Having done my family tree pretty much all the women worked.

The difference between me (and my mum) and those who came before us and them is that my husband (and dad) is an equal partner in bringing up the children, doing housework, life admin etc and I am also able to have an enjoyable career whereas they had to get whatever job would bring in some money.

I am sorry you are having a hard time OP but for many women things are not shit and are actually much better than they used to be.

But society tells us that housework and raising children is 'women's work' and therefore by extension, not worthy of being paid. It's double pronged misogyny.

I don't believe "society" tells us that, at all. Not any more. I don't know anyone under the age of 70 who thinks housework and childcare is just for women.

@barelycoping1

I'm afraid op, there are choices you've made along the way which result in where you are now. The decision for either of you not to train for a well paid career. The decision to have children before you'd saved enough to be a sahm.

I don't know your situation, but many people are sahps and loving it. They got there through maybe working their arse off in their twenties for example, amongst umpteen other options.

This is true.

I think this comment is very stuck up and closed minded.

Many people who are career have parents who also come from a similar background which enables them to pass and encourage their own children to be steered in the right direct.

Also not everyone had the same level of intelligence. Someone has to do the jobs at min wage/low paid.

I haven’t rtft only the OPs posts so apologies if this has been covered.

If it’s literally £350 a month after childcare costs then You could do a couple of evening shifts at Sainsbury’s or similar each week and earn that much. Your Husband could cover the childcare while you work as you do while he does.

OP, try breaking it down to £80 a week and see what you can knock off this. even the once a week takeaway is £20, see if theres an evening or two in a local shop to make up the £60 or as others have said sell bits and bobs on facebook and ebay, take it down to the £1's and see where you end up have you looked into seeing if theres any benefits available?

OP you need a job like mine.This is so not a bragging post but it ould help you. I work in a school 12 til 3 5 days a week, It is amazing if not limited but what it does do is allow me to take my dd to school every day,pick her up every day and have every weekend and every school holiday off with her, Admittedly my dh earns a pretty good wage and he does 12 hr shifts to allow me to do what I do, Also with my job I can split my wages over 52 weeks instead of term time only and that means I get a monthly salary of around £500 give or take,I appreciate this is basically just pocket money but what it does give me is time,time to be a mum,time to run the home as I wish and it makes me very happy, I am I feel really lucky and blessed to be able to do this whilst my dd is young, I am not a teacher or anything like that I am support staff,Something like this kind of set up could help you feel a bit better maybe?

@DelBocaVista

It is multifaceted, of course.

But I would hope that if this is a commonly studied topic in your field, you’d be able to recognise that you not having witnessed these discussions between men doesn’t mean they don’t occur. Nor does it mean that it isn’t a consideration for individual men who may or may not feel able to share that openly where researchers can pick up on it.

As I’ve said, I have lived professional experience of those discussions with plenty of men (and I don’t work exclusively with men, on balance I see many more women).

Your initial comment about how you research this for a living and have never come across men asking whether they can have it all just came across to me like you were implying that it doesn’t happen, apologies if that’s not what you meant. Clearly, some men do feel this pressure, not all (not all women do either).

I was born in 1954. Both my parents worked full time although mum worked in the evenings so she could be home with us during the day.

She took a small amount of time off when she had me and then my two siblings.

Even with both of them working they struggled. I know they sometimes went without food to feed us. We had about 4 holidays (all in the UK and all really cheap) from my birth until I left home at 22.

We didn't have a tv until I was about 15, no central heating until I was 21, no washing machine for years.

The only extra money they got was child benefit but not for me as I was the oldest.

When DH and me got married 40 years ago we could not have afforded for one of us to give up work. We just about got a mortgage on our combined wages but then the interest went up and up and up and up. We really struggled for a good few years.

What was your plan when you decided to have a child? Did you want to be a sahm and, if so, how did you think you would be able to afford it?

I think you either need to find evening and/or weekend work or try and cut back on your outgoings.

Could you move to a cheaper house/area? Could you cut back on your food spend? You don't need to have a takeaway every week so, straight away, that is something you could save on.

You can make money at home. If you have any craft skills you can make and sell items.

There are survey sites where you can earn money, online transcription sites, matched betting, online moderating. Depending on how much time you put into them you can earn a reasonable amount

@PaperbackRider

But society tells us that housework and raising children is 'women's work' and therefore by extension, not worthy of being paid. It's double pronged misogyny.

I don't believe "society" tells us that, at all. Not any more. I don't know anyone under the age of 70 who thinks housework and childcare is just for women.

Who gives a shit what society tells you anyway, if it was true, but it's not anyway. If I'd have taken on board what society expected, or whatever having it all means, I'd have topped myself by now. We're individuals, live life like that, not how you think others think you should live.

I think £350 a month is worth it OP. I agree it makes a huge difference.

How long have you been back at work?

If you work 2 night shifts a week as a Band 2 HCA OP you would take home around £1100 a month. Sunday’s pay the best also.

DelBocaVista
You're right about men and full time, but plenty of people seem to have a view on men working part time. The opinions always come out then.
Some (older) relatives were shocked when DH took parental leave and expressed concern about him going part time. Apparently it was the wrong time for him, his career would be ruined, but his job is important, and all the usual arguments arguments come down to "Big Important Man Job". Nobody expressed any concerns about me going part time, and many were very concerned that other people were raising my (yes my, not our) child. Plenty strongly hinted that I would regret going back to work, but made zero comments about the need to make appropriate pension arrangements if I left work and no comments were made to encourage me to make an informed decision about my long term prospects.

My parents both worked but they couldn't afford childcare (this was back in the 1960s).

Both of them did factory work. Dad got a shift starting at 6am, finished at 2pm and picked us kids up from school on the way home.

Mum worked in a local factory (literally at the end of the road) and started work at 4pm. She worked part time and finished at 9pm. it meant a parent was with us all the time with a cross over hour to sort anything out like 'LondonJax needs her plimsolls tomorrow' or 'can you take LondonJax to a 4pm doctor appointment tomorrow'.

That went on for years but it kept the wolf from the door (no luxuries) and was the best they could do as dad had been made redundant from a better paid job after my youngest sister arrived.

Later mum got a part time job in a shop and I would be in charge for 3 hours every day after school (I was 10 at the time).

The evening shop work is a good idea if you are up for it. That or weekend work in shops.

Can't you make the money work somehow ?. Cut cut cut all living costs.
Can you get rid of a car, smartphone, alcohol, all convenience foods, disposable nappies. Wear whatever clothes you've already got, buy secondhand for the baby. Put a jumper on and turn the heating. down/off. Turn off lights, don;t heat empty rooms, cook cheap nutritious food, throw none away. Cancel subscriptions and memberships.
What paid work could you do at home? Ironing, minding a friend's child, doing school run for local family, after-school childcare.
Are you claiming all possible benefits/tax allowances?

Sure to be lots of other ideas from MN.

OP
Is there anyway at all you could stay at home for the first couple of years at least of your son’s life? The time is so precious and flies by so quickly. Could you work in the evenings or on a weekend maybe?
I had five children and we were as poor as church mice, just about survived but I have no regrets at all, I had my children’s childhoods with them and no amount of money can top that.
I really hope you can sort something out.

@2bazookas

Can't you make the money work somehow ?. Cut cut cut all living costs. Can you get rid of a car, smartphone, alcohol, all convenience foods, disposable nappies. Wear whatever clothes you've already got, buy secondhand for the baby. Put a jumper on and turn the heating. down/off. Turn off lights, don;t heat empty rooms, cook cheap nutritious food, throw none away. Cancel subscriptions and memberships. What paid work could you do at home? Ironing, minding a friend's child, doing school run for local family, after-school childcare. Are you claiming all possible benefits/tax allowances? Sure to be lots of other ideas from MN.

Wow this sounds absolutely miserable, who would choose to live like this?

I feel for you and take the point that modern life is indeed shit.Its true that many women worked some years ago .However many didnt or only PT. Maybe you could try to work PT/evenings.Can you see if you could move to a cheaper area/house? What about Childminding or doing some cleaning ? Could yo see if you could make cutbacks at all? Its a sahme you are missing out ,however I went to Nursery when my DM worked and we still had a close RL!

If you are that unhappy then you need to change jobs

Either train to be come a cm so dc is with you all the time

Tho will you want other kids to look after once dc is at nursery or school

Or work evening /night shifts

So you need to earn £80ish a week that is easily done doing 2/3 night shifts at local food/clothing store