To feel I'm not responsible for my disabled child's conduct at nursery?

[Hannah941]

My pre school age old child is autistic (diagnosed) and strongly fits the PDA profile, thus he has associated challenging behavioural. He has an EHCP and is currently in an early years setting that claims to know about and understand SN children.

As per most children on the spectrum his behaviour can be very challenging. After consulting with an ed psych, paediatrican and numerous SALT therapists we are following their suggestions and implementing reccomended strategies at home. He has made good progress in a year but he'll always be autistic and have difficulties with emotional regulation and conduct. He has been known to hit and push other children. I get that's it's not acceptable but he's not the only child there who does this.

His EHCP specifically outlines this as a primary challenge he has and so 1-1 is needed (and required by law now) most of the time.

The problem I'm facing at the moment is when I go to pick him up from his setting I'm being berated for the way he behaves and told I need to improve his behaviour, for example throwing things and him throwing himself on the floor is problematic for them.

There's nothing I can do at home that I'm not already doing and yes it's incredibly challenging sometimes. Of course it is. I'm on my knees with it sometimes.

They knew about all of this before I enrolled him. I explained exactly what problems we have and I chose this place specifically because they claim to have extensive knowledge about SN children and DS wouldn't cope in mainstream.

Today when I collected him she was going off on a tangent about how his behaviour needs to improve and how despite being predominantly non verbal he does understand what he's doing.

She wouldn't let me get a word in edgeways, i was spoken over when I tried to explain that 'standard' techniques just don't work for DS bevause he fits the PDA profile.

I asked her if she knew anything about PDA and she didn't, she asked me to send her some links

I left the building feeling stressed and upset, like I'd just been told off.

I don't feel as though I'm directly responsible for his struggles and conduct when he's there as I'm already doing everything I should be, and then some. He's disabled for gods sake.

AIBU?

I have no advise OP just wanted to give you my sympathy and support. Your son sounds so similar to mine but luckily his nursery are fantastic with him.
I can only imagine how distressing and difficult this is for you.
DO NOT FEEL GUILTY! This is not on you. I really hope once he starts his new school they are able to meet his needs better.

Do nursery take him to a calm space if he has a meltdown? Does he take anything with him? My sons takes his weighted blanket which he lays under in the sensory room with his TA when he becomes overwhelmed.

Absolutely agree with the poster saying to answer every question with a question about the 1:1. What time did this happen and where was the 1:1? What strategy did the 1:1 use etc? You need to be really firm, this situation is entirely unacceptable.

If he is in an early years setting how come he needs movement breaks? Shouldn't his whole day be movement breaks? Sensory circuits would possibly be better. That aside, they should be able to manage that with an almost full time 1:1 themselves and you are not responsible. Well done on getting him an EHCP and 1:1 so early, now it sounds like nursery have to live up to their side of the bargain.

It does sound like the nursery are understaffed. Your DS should have a designated 1:1, who is suitably trained, and always works with your son.
Consistency is key, check they aren't swapping staff around.
There will be a local authority early years area Senco who can support the 1:1.
If you've just got the EHCP it's early days for progress. It seems the staff don't recognise that?
Do the nursery use Makaton and visual aids? They need to work with you and share positive feedback, not just a list of misdemeanours, that's crushing for a parent.
Is your DS happy there??

Well he certainly isn't suited to that setting. The question I would be asking if they do have experience with children like this is if they believe there is a possibility some of this behaviour could be controlled and needs addressing despite his autism. The fact is, regardless of autism, your child still needs to learn a level of control or how will he ever function in society? I know you said she didn't have any experience but presumably someone there does or you wouldn't have chosen the nursery? Perhaps you should ask to speak the the nursery leader and get a view from them?

Thank you all for the solidarity and advice I really appreciate it. I'm taking notes and will be following your suggestions.

Yesterday there was an incident with DS and another child when they were playing with play dough and cutters. The other child tried to take the thing DS was using so DS hit her on the arm, the other child then grabbed DS between his collar and neck which left scratches (I spoke about that on here yesterday, some might have seen it)

So the trigger there was the other child trying to take something away from DS, pretty understandable I think in the grand scheme of autism (not that I'm justifying the hitting, not at all) but something like that could be avoided if the children are monitored closely enough I think?

The nursery do have a quiet room where children can go to calm down and DS is spending quite alot of time there at the moment with one other child who I'm told is very similar to him in terms of behaviour.

The manager said to me today "if we don't get on top of this then he'll have to be educated separately to all the other children" which I found bizarre. He isn't a monster / risk to life or limb, he's just a little boy with autism who needs supporting correctly.

He takes in a comforter blanket and dummy for nap time (they have a designated nap time there) but he does have a weighted blanket at home I would be happy to send him with.

4:14 doesn't sound like a good enough ratio to me (understatement) particularly as the manager will have other duties. In fact, when you factor in breaks, holidays and sickness the ratio is much more likely to be 3:14 most of the time - that's almost 1 member of staff to 5 DCs.

If they all have additional needs, that's just not enough. If all the needs are at the same level as your DS then it's frankly dangerous.

It sounds like the staff are stretched to their limit and then projecting that onto the OP...

@LadyOfLittleLeisure

If he is in an early years setting how come he needs movement breaks? Shouldn't his whole day be movement breaks? Sensory circuits would possibly be better. That aside, they should be able to manage that with an almost full time 1:1 themselves and you are not responsible. Well done on getting him an EHCP and 1:1 so early, now it sounds like nursery have to live up to their side of the bargain.

The movement breaks discussion came about because they were complaining that he wouldn't sit still during circle time, he would get up and wander off to the toys. They like all of the children to sit down in a circle on the carpet and sing songs together / pay attention to whatever they're teaching them.

Another point of contention is dinner time. They want all of the children to remain seated at the table and not get up and wander around. DS struggles to stay sat in one place for too long.

I raised these things during the meetings with the ed psych and SALT who agreed he would benefit from movement breaks.

@Viviennemary

It just sounds like the nursery has not got the expertise and staffing levels to deal with your DC. And its cheeky if your DS isnt getting the 1 to 1 he is dntitled to.

More than cheeky as they are receiving extra funding for 1:1 support.

Agree with PP. Bring everything back to the provision in the EHCP. The nursery should be planning, trialling and reviewing their interventions so they learn what works for your son. It sounds like they'd rather blame you than do the work involved!

With asd, there is a tendency to be unable to generalise, so you could work wonders at home and him be always calm but because that's your strategies in your home and down to your recognition of triggers, that is not going to simply infuse into the school environment.

They need to learn his triggers and use effective strategies of their own instead of missing the flash point again and again and again then attempting to blame you.

Ok, so they aren't managing him. There is either a staffing gap, a skills gap, a knowledge gap, or an attitude gap. Sadly, the reality is there is probably a combination.

SN isn't an excuse for poor behaviour (I say as the parent of a child with SN) but this is developmentally appropriate behaviour. The child who was snatching needs help not to snatch and your DS needs support during difficult times. Tbh, it should never have got to the point where a child was reaching into your DS's personal space to snatch a cutter.

Do the preschool have access to Portage? Are they getting Inclusion funding to provide his 1:1?

It's not your fault or responsibility. Don't take him out of the setting. You need the break and he needs a change of scenery. If they complain I would say that you understand he is challenging, but that you are following guidance from the specialists at home. Good luck.

I would make an appointment to go in and discuss his progress. Ask them what else they need to be able to manage his behaviour. It sounds like they need some training on PDA strategies which are as you say very different to what works with most children on the spectrum.
If they can't meet his needs, is there a specialist nursery attached to a special school? They shouldn't be dumping it all on you but it sounds like they are struggling. I would explain that whilst of course you need to know how the day has been, expecting you to have the solution when you pick him up is unrealistic. Maybe the nursery manager needs to talk to her staff and work out how they can debrief on the day with your ds. It sounds like the staff member needs someone to vent to and who can problem solve with her. That shouldn't be you!

It's early days for the EHCP yes. I didn't expect them to be so defeatist so early on.

Is he happy there? He seems to be. He enjoys going.

The fact is, regardless of autism, your child still needs to learn a level of control or how will he ever function in society? I know you said she didn't have any experience but presumably someone there does or you wouldn't have chosen the nursery? Perhaps you should ask to speak the the nursery leader and get a view from them?

Oh I totally get that, and I agree. He has made alot of progress over the last year and achieved things I didn't think he would. There's always room for improvement of course and I'm open to doing whatever deemed nessecary to help him flourish.

They advertise as a SN nursery which is why I chose them, sadly it is the manager who I'm having this problems with. She used to be a health visitor and said she has alot of experience with SN children.

I don't even think the staff are qualified to be honest. Two of them are (very lovely) young girls, much younger than I am and I'm 27, and I think are apprentices. They're fab with DS and he really likes them but they're only following the instructions of the nursery manager, who I'm afraid to say doesn't appear to know her arse from her elbow sometimes.

OP I would ask for a meeting with the nursery manager and his 1:1. The 1:1 needs to be fully up to date with what his triggers are and to know how to spot them, distract and de- escalate. Ask them when these incidents are happening. What is going on when they happen? Are there certain activities that he reacts worse to than others. Are there certain tasks he struggles with and this causes a reaction? Write all this stuff down and then take it to the meeting with you. 1:1 needs to be on top of this.

Hope you are ok xx

I would take him out of that nursery. They don't know what they are doing.
Hes autistic not being naughty. Ffs.

He has an EHCP and is supposed to have a 1:1 - they’re trying to shift the responsibility for his care while at nursery onto you.

The phrase ‘duty of care’ is your friend here. They have a duty of care to your son. His 1:1 is his. They are currently failing in their duty of care.

Every time they try this shit your response needs to be a version of “and where was his 1:1?”

They need to have plans to help him while he is in their care (working with you of course), not just Chuck it all over the fence at you when you come to pick him up because they’re overwhelmed.

“There are 4 members of staff in total including the manager, overseeing 14-15 special needs children, but not all 4 staff members are there every day.”

That’s the kind of ratio I might expect in a mainstream preschool for typically developing children, excluding any 1:1 and allowing for some part time workers. No way is a manger and what sounds like 1-2 members of staff at any given time sufficient for that many children with special needs - it actually sounds unsafe. Who are they claiming is 1:1 with your son while this is going on?

Honestly, they sound awful.

YANBU @Hannah941 . It seems despite claiming they did, they aren't really geared up to deal with his needs/behaviours. I would see if a different placement could be arranged with somewhere slightly more specialized or at least understanding of kids like him and their motivations and abilities.

I'd turn it back on them and ask how so many incidents are happening when he has 1-1 supervision 90% of the time. Why is your ds staff member not able to stop these incidents from happening abc do they perhaps need further training.

Thats no where near enought staff.

In my school there is an ASD unit, for primary aged children. The staffing levels are 3 adults to 6 children. 15 children to 4 part time staff sounds like a regular nursery to me!

I would also want to know, in detail, how they are implementing the strategies as set out in his EHCP. Either

A) they are not following the EHCP properly or

B) the strategies do not work/ are insufficient and need to be reviewed.

As professionals, I would have thought that they could be trying some evidence based strategies, in partnership and communication with you. If they really are feeling like they cannot manage him, then there should be some
evidence being gathered to submit to the LA to argue that his EHCP needs to be increased.

“ I don't even think the staff are qualified to be honest. Two of them are (very lovely) young girls, much younger than I am and I'm 27, and I think are apprentices.”

If they are genuinely running a nursery, much less a SN nursery, with 15 kids, a manager and two apprentices I’d seriously pull my child out. That’s just barking mad.

It is very difficult the dreaded walk towards the door daily I've been there.
I didn't challenge it as felt it was my problem it added to the guilt.
Stand up for yourself and turn the complaint back to them.
Is he getting movement breaks outside the room? Are they doing any regulation exercises? Mine didn't in nursery, he started in mainstream school 2 years ago, I hear nothing once he is dealt with ATT.
His OT commented on something his teacher mentioned to her it was the first time I heard it.
Hopefully it'll be the same for you. Mine has settled lots too given more responsibility and movement breaks in mainstream.

Furious on your behalf.