To think being single should be recognised in law as an unreasonable basis for discrimination?

[OneLovelyDay]

I've just discovered (learning to drive later than others) that apparently it's unreasonable to charge women less for car insurance, but apparently fine to charge single people more than married people.

There's loads of things like this that discriminate against single people, although some not as directly. I'm thinking things like council tax discount, which should be 50% for living alone, not the 25% it is.

More broadly, it's interesting how society has accepted (to some degree) alternative family arrangements but not singleness/childlessness. I could marry and start a family with another woman and it would fit with societies' expectations (and financial incentives) more than being single, or having children alone by sperm donation.

I find being single totally an acceptable thing, don't feel the need for a partner in a day to day sense. But hoping for a family and a ticking biological clock reminds me that it's not my choice to be single. So I don't think it's acceptable for society to discriminate like this. (But also even if someone chooses to be childfree and single that should be respected and treated as legitimate and fulfilled life!)

I was reminded of it particularly harshly in the first lockdown in 2020, when people not living with a family were not supposed to go within two meters of another human, and there was no outcry. It was a real jolt in terms of realising how society views us as different/weird/not normal (thus not entitled to the same basic humane conditions, in that instance).

Fortunately most of my friends are either single or not the joined-at-the-hip with partner type. But sometimes these things crop up and I'm suddenly reminded that my life and needs are not considered as legitimate as those in couples or with children. At the moment this is happening a lot as I'm about to take a drop in income and so going through bills working out where to save money.

I just think it should be illegal to discriminate for things like car insurance based on single status, and more broadly that people should consider this issue and not treat single people differently, in the same way people have started to consider racism, homophobia etc.
AIBU?

I think you’re right about some things, but not others.

In terms of council tax, being a single person doesn’t mean you use 50% less of council provided services than a couple does. The houses of single people aren’t generally half the size of those of couples, your bin isn’t emptied half as often, your car doesn’t do half as much damage to roads etc. A 25% discount therefore seems more proportionate to the share of services used than 50%. And you still have the option of taking advantage of savings in council tax by having a flat mate, if you choose to.

It’s not the same as racism etc, and they can’t be compared. Being single is not an inherent characteristic of who you are. You can always change your single status if you want to, or take advantage of the financial benefits of being in a couple by entering into a platonic arrangement with a friend. Being single is what you do, not who you are.

I agree, however, that single people were not adequately considered at the start of the pandemic, and bubbles should have been established from the outset and not as an afterthought.

Is it not covered by Equality Act, discriminating on marital status?

I agree. To the council tax discount please let me add.
Hotel rooms single supplement
Present giving. Expectations for wedding presents are the same for singles or double earning couples
And the one that drives me mad. I am a high earning solo parent. So not entitled to child benefit for my children or whatever it is called these days as my salary is too high. Fair enough. Except all my girlfriends married to higher-than-me high earners all receive it. WTF
Singleton tax is real. Which is odd when so many households are single these days

I agree people living alone got a rough deal in lockdown. Then again, quite a lot of people did..
The previous poster explains well what I think about the council tax issue. You’re not actually using 50% less of the services so I feel that it’s fair enough.
Things like car insurance which offer deals for multiple users are all about incentives for as many people as possible to give them their money. Presumably even with discounts 2 people signing up is more money for the business than just 1. It’s not discrimination I don’t think, just offering a different product to different people.
I don’t see being single as any less valid but all life choices come with positives and negatives.. we all make compromises for the life we choose.

In terms of council tax, being a single person doesn’t mean you use 50% less of council provided services than a couple does. The houses of single people aren’t generally half the size of those of couples, your bin isn’t emptied half as often, your car doesn’t do half as much damage to roads etc.

I disagree. Single people are more likely to live in 1 bed flats and they will produce rubbish for 1 person not 2 or more and they will have less people to ferry around.

Whilst I wouldn't say it's discrimination, trying to get a mortgage and buy a home as a single person is supremely difficult. Even renting my own place and not housesharing is out of my reach on one salary.

I'd also like to add (although again, not discrimination) - the sizes of packs of fresh food! All the bagged salads etc are geared towards couples or families. I always end up throwing some away because I can't get through it as quickly as others.

I'd love some smaller packs to be available, it would save lots of food waste.

Is it not covered by Equality Act, discriminating on marital status?

No. It is not.

"Except all my girlfriends married to higher-than-me high earners all receive it."
Their partners will have to pay it back through their tax bill. There are two reasons why they might claim it anyway: one is so they get that money direct to them, and the other is because it qualifies you for national insurance credits until your child is 12.

Car insurance is to do with how many people are insured on the car, not marital status, I believe. Ours went down when I learned to drive and went on the insurance; until then my husband was paying more. You may find that adding a friend or family member as a named driver reduces your bill, but maybe it's only if you're at the same address.

I didn't know there were "expectations" for wedding presents.

@Lockheart

Whilst I wouldn't say it's discrimination, trying to get a mortgage and buy a home as a single person is supremely difficult. Even renting my own place and not housesharing is out of my reach on one salary.

I'd also like to add (although again, not discrimination) - the sizes of packs of fresh food! All the bagged salads etc are geared towards couples or families. I always end up throwing some away because I can't get through it as quickly as others.

I'd love some smaller packs to be available, it would save lots of food waste.

The mortgage on a single salary is a joke these days. Completely unfair.

it's interesting how society has accepted (to some degree) alternative family arrangements but not singleness/childlessness. IME this isn't the case. My DP and I have a lodger, who is single. Not many eyebrows are raised about our living arrangements, because most of the people we know have lives sufficient not to care that much; but if an eyebrow is raised it's about DP and I having a lodger, not about them being single.

Present giving. Expectations for wedding presents are the same for singles or double earning couples
I've never felt this. Generally gift lists have a range of things at a range of prices. If you can't afford more pricey things you give the cheaper things.

Hotel rooms single supplement
But holidays for couples involve two flights/train tickets; two lots of meals out; two lots of tickets to sights/museums etc.

Personally I feel more 'discrimination' (although that's a strong word and I think of it more as thoughtlessness) against me for being in a couple. People assume we have more money than single people, but my DP makes less than minimum wage, even without a pandemic on, and I'm not a particularly high earner, plus we're in London and I'm freelance, so things are up and down and in the long term quite insecure. OTOH I know single people on 70–80K and more, which is comfortably more than our income. And even with e.g. single room supplements, a holiday for one person costs significantly less than for me and DP.

People also tend to assume we both give each other all the emotional
and practical support we need, which isn't true; and even though I agree there is SOME benefit in that way, people don't seem to consider that being in a couple has practical and emotional negatives too. e.g. my DP is a bit fixed and particular about home improvements and purchases, so everything is a protracted negotiation, which takes emotional energy. And he has health issues that I have to support him with.

Plus he works with the public, which means I'm in a constant low-level anxious state about his health re Covid. A single person doesn't have that worry.

I'm not saying single people have it easier – I know there are downside to that too – but I think it's a mistake to draw lines or pick sides. Everyone has shit to deal with regardless of relationship status.

The single person supplement in hotels etc feels very unfair. Pay a supplement to get a nasty little room. Not to mention the deals on Wowcher etc where there isn't even a choice of paying a supplement for a hotel and evening meal deal. Couples only.

@excuseforfights

In terms of council tax, being a single person doesn’t mean you use 50% less of council provided services than a couple does. The houses of single people aren’t generally half the size of those of couples, your bin isn’t emptied half as often, your car doesn’t do half as much damage to roads etc.

I disagree. Single people are more likely to live in 1 bed flats and they will produce rubbish for 1 person not 2 or more and they will have less people to ferry around.

But we don't have a system that enables the binmen to empty your bin once a month instead of once a fortnight. Unfortunately it costs the same to empty a bin with a small amount in it as one which is full.

I wonder what the statistics are for road use by different categories of household? I'll bet there are some single people who do a lot more mileage than average, and I have no idea whether there's a significant difference between single people and not-single people overall.

But holidays for couples involve two flights/train tickets; two lots of meals out; two lots of tickets to sights/museums etc.

But you will generally have two incomes!

Plus he works with the public, which means I'm in a constant low-level anxious state about his health re Covid. A single person doesn't have that worry.

Single people have people they worry about too!

I was reminded of it particularly harshly in the first lockdown in 2020, when people not living with a family were not supposed to go within two meters of another human, and there was no outcry

Yes there was!

But holidays for couples involve two flights/train tickets; two lots of meals out; two lots of tickets to sights/museums etc.

But you will generally have two incomes!
As I also say, my DP makes less than minimum wage and I don't earn a huge amount. Who can afford a better holiday: two people on about 50K together or one person earning 80K or more (as with some single people I know)?

Plus he works with the public, which means I'm in a constant low-level anxious state about his health re Covid. A single person doesn't have that worry.

Single people have people they worry about too!
I didn't say they didn't. I said specifically they don't have a PARTNER to worry about.

To add: my DP has earned almost nothing this year, so we've been two people on essentially one (not high or secure) income.

@Butterflyfox

I agree. To the council tax discount please let me add. Hotel rooms single supplement Present giving. Expectations for wedding presents are the same for singles or double earning couples And the one that drives me mad. I am a high earning solo parent. So not entitled to child benefit for my children or whatever it is called these days as my salary is too high. Fair enough. Except all my girlfriends married to higher-than-me high earners all receive it. WTF Singleton tax is real. Which is odd when so many households are single these days

No they don't. If you earn £60k and are not eligible then any friend marries to someone who earns £60k or over is also not eligible and if they are claiming it they are going to get a nasty surprise when asked to pay it all back.

But we don't have a system that enables the binmen to empty your bin once a month instead of once a fortnight. Unfortunately it costs the same to empty a bin with a small amount in it as one which is full.

But why then offer the discount at all? Ridiculous for single to pay 75% of what families pay.

But we don't have a system that enables the binmen to empty your bin once a month instead of once a fortnight.

Yes we do, you just don't put it out to be emptied, or ask for a smaller bin (if they have one).

Where I live there are communal bins so as far as that goes I definitely use a smaller share. Especially considering other properties have families so even more than twice the rubbish I produce.
I'm pretty sure I don't use more than half the amount of other services, and probably less, again considering being one person not a family of 4 for example. (Although I'm not totally sure children should be included, I'm still one adult not two!)
Not sure what property size has to do with it - am I missing something? I live in the smallest cheapest available property, but it's still more expensive than if I was in a couple in itself, not sure why that should me more council tax too.

@PastaLaVistaBBY

I think you’re right about some things, but not others.

In terms of council tax, being a single person doesn’t mean you use 50% less of council provided services than a couple does. The houses of single people aren’t generally half the size of those of couples, your bin isn’t emptied half as often, your car doesn’t do half as much damage to roads etc. A 25% discount therefore seems more proportionate to the share of services used than 50%. And you still have the option of taking advantage of savings in council tax by having a flat mate, if you choose to.

It’s not the same as racism etc, and they can’t be compared. Being single is not an inherent characteristic of who you are. You can always change your single status if you want to, or take advantage of the financial benefits of being in a couple by entering into a platonic arrangement with a friend. Being single is what you do, not who you are.

I agree, however, that single people were not adequately considered at the start of the pandemic, and bubbles should have been established from the outset and not as an afterthought.

PastaLaVistaBBY You can always change your single status if you want to, or take advantage of the financial benefits of being in a couple by entering into a platonic arrangement with a friend.

But both these scenarios involve having someone you can do that with - I can't just conjure up a partner, or a single close friend who's up for committing to such an arrangement. It's not a choice.

Oops, quote fail

Car insurance for married couple is lower not because marriage confers some sort of mystical bonus that entitles you to not give the insurance company more of your hard earned cash. Insurance lives and dies by ridiculously complex actuarial evidence which shows that statistically, if you’re married, you’re less likely to claim on your car insurance than if you’re single. It’s as much discriminatory as saying that statistically you get people are more likely to claim on their insurance. It’s just fact.

No insurance provider is nuanced enough to provide a tailored premium to each customer who can say “oh, but I’m the exception to all the evidence you have, notwithstanding my single status”.

If you want to fill the gap in the market for car insurance for responsible single people, you should do it!

Actually there is a ‘system’ for having your bin collected less frequently

its called not putting the bin out. Before I had my son I had probably an average of a carrier bags worth of rubbish a week, I just didnt put the wheelie bin out every week.
I think the Council tax issue gets more pronounced when you have more than 2 adults in a house or in my situation. Next year my son will be 18 and I will lose my single person discount, he will still be in education and not earning.
@IntermittentParps - I may not have had a partner to worry about, however as the sole earner and parent, the impact of long term illness or death had prerr

to contibue

very serious consequences for my household and my son in particular