To think being single should be recognised in law as an unreasonable basis for discrimination?

[OneLovelyDay]

I've just discovered (learning to drive later than others) that apparently it's unreasonable to charge women less for car insurance, but apparently fine to charge single people more than married people.

There's loads of things like this that discriminate against single people, although some not as directly. I'm thinking things like council tax discount, which should be 50% for living alone, not the 25% it is.

More broadly, it's interesting how society has accepted (to some degree) alternative family arrangements but not singleness/childlessness. I could marry and start a family with another woman and it would fit with societies' expectations (and financial incentives) more than being single, or having children alone by sperm donation.

I find being single totally an acceptable thing, don't feel the need for a partner in a day to day sense. But hoping for a family and a ticking biological clock reminds me that it's not my choice to be single. So I don't think it's acceptable for society to discriminate like this. (But also even if someone chooses to be childfree and single that should be respected and treated as legitimate and fulfilled life!)

I was reminded of it particularly harshly in the first lockdown in 2020, when people not living with a family were not supposed to go within two meters of another human, and there was no outcry. It was a real jolt in terms of realising how society views us as different/weird/not normal (thus not entitled to the same basic humane conditions, in that instance).

Fortunately most of my friends are either single or not the joined-at-the-hip with partner type. But sometimes these things crop up and I'm suddenly reminded that my life and needs are not considered as legitimate as those in couples or with children. At the moment this is happening a lot as I'm about to take a drop in income and so going through bills working out where to save money.

I just think it should be illegal to discriminate for things like car insurance based on single status, and more broadly that people should consider this issue and not treat single people differently, in the same way people have started to consider racism, homophobia etc.
AIBU?

I don't think it is at all comparable to discrimination on the basis of race, religion or sex.

The car insurance pisses me off mine when up when I told them we had separated, I only had one policy so multiple users wasn’t the reason!

I asked why on the phone at the time abs just got “it just does”, I pointed out I was less likely to drive into a central reservation if I wasn’t arguing with the dickhead in the passenger seat then changed insurers

It is the act of sharing that is cheaper and is not in any way linked to relationship status.

You are incredibly naive if you think there is no link.

In the UK cultural and societal mores mean that it is rare for older people to share living arrangements with someone they are not married to or in a romantic relationship with.

It is becoming more common as younger people are forced into sharing flats and houses with strangers. But even you would agree this is hardly an ideal living situation.

A woman posted on here a couple of months ago asking if she should go on a date with this guy in his 30s who lived with flatmates. The overwhelming response was that he was a loser and there was something wrong with him if he didn't have his own place at that age.

And you really can’t see why it was a pretty thoughtless thing to say, intermittent?

A bit like the people who comfort the infertile with the fact babies cause a lot of worry.

To be fair to @intermittentparps, I think what they mean is that when you're part of a couple, you're a unit with a degree of reliance on one another. There are strong elements of a caring relationship in there that aren't typically exemplified in friendships, where you might provide intensive emotional support but not see a direct impact of their choices etc. on your personal home life.

I'm single and I absolutely understand where they're coming from. It isn't that friendships are lesser (I have, I'd say, a friendship that is as close to a couple-bond as it's possible to get but I still do not have responsibility for that friend), it's that they're different.

This is not entirely true for council tax. There were 4 people in my household but, as the only adult, I got the single persons discount. The on bed flat you mention, however, will be a lower value than a 4 bed house and thus the council tax will be lower.

Yes, but a single person in a 1 bed flat shouldn't have to pay the same as a couple in a 1 bed flat.

@helpmebeanadult

Single, childless people are also not accessing schools.

No, but it's in everyone's interests for children to be educated (single and childless, here, so no skin in the game).

I also don't drive, but I do like the roads being maintained.

Yes, but a single person in a 1 bed flat shouldn't have to pay the same as a couple in a 1 bed flat.

They aren't.

@helpmebeanadult

Infertile couples won't be either. Single childless people are more likely to need council funding for old age care.

@IntermittentParps

As a married person, I am able to save much more than a single person, because all of our living costs are shared. You only eat one person's worth of food? Require one lot of clothes? Electronics? Transport?

Yes, there are savings in being in a couple. There are also expenses, especially if earnings are not equal. I recently paid for my DP's membership at his leisure centre as he's hardly earned anything since the pandemic. I've recently paid for DIY and related materials. His laptop, which is essential for what work he does have (and looking for work), looked as if it was dying the other day. Thankfully it's recovered, but I was already doing the sums about getting a new one.

Are you seriously comparing paying for all bills alone versus paying for your DP's leisure membership?!

You will have had the benefit of being to save when DP was working. Please don't compare yourself to a single person.

I promise I am not being difficult here trixie but I am not seeing what you are.

Obviously when you love someone, partner or child or parent, a certain amount of worry for their health and well-being comes with that. But that in itself doesn’t mean being without them is in some way preferable.

And you really can’t see why it was a pretty thoughtless thing to say, intermittent?
Honestly no, because I've said (over and over and over) that I KNOW single people's problems are not fewer or lesser, just that they're different.

I come up against quite a lot of comments of the 'Well, you're in a couple so you've got each other for support'/'Well, you get to share the financial load' etc variety. While I don't disagree there are benefits to my relationship status, it fucks me off that people don't stop to think that a) they don't know the details of my and DP's finances and b) his problems might be bloody hard for me to support (and vice versa).
I know how infuriating and offensive this is, so I do not go around saying to single people that they can't possibly have problems.

I was outraged when my house insurance quote increased when I was widowed. I've lived in the same house for 20 years, only claimed once (and that was two years after moving in when the loo fell through the ceiling), but renewing my insurance a month after DH died, my quote went up 20% because of my marital status change. So not only have I lost the love of my life, I am now financially penalised. That wasn't a choice.

They aren't.

Sorry I meant it's not fair that singles pay 75%. It should be 50%.

internittent, it’s a thread about single people and their difficulties and tbh it looks very much like you’re making it about you.

And you do get to share the financial load

VienneseWhirligig I’m sorry really not what you will have wanted at that time I imagine.

@IntermittentParps

And you really can’t see why it was a pretty thoughtless thing to say, intermittent? Honestly no, because I've said (over and over and over) that I KNOW single people's problems are not fewer or lesser, just that they're different.

I come up against quite a lot of comments of the 'Well, you're in a couple so you've got each other for support'/'Well, you get to share the financial load' etc variety. While I don't disagree there are benefits to my relationship status, it fucks me off that people don't stop to think that a) they don't know the details of my and DP's finances and b) his problems might be bloody hard for me to support (and vice versa).
I know how infuriating and offensive this is, so I do not go around saying to single people that they can't possibly have problems.

But no one is saying that there. I just agree with the OP that things like CT aren't fair to single people.

internittent, it’s a thread about single people and their difficulties and tbh it looks very much like you’re making it about you.

This is true, the OP is about single people, yet we're back to married people woes.

the official reason why it is 25% not 50%
This is because the Council Tax is based on two elements – property and occupancy – which are split 50/50. In the original scheme an empty property which was furnished or had been empty longer than 6 months would receive a 50% reduction (the ‘property element’) and those who had single occupancy would only pay half of the ‘occupancy element’.
regarding the single supplement - with a couple occupying a nice double room will each pay an amount as a single person and are therefore entitled to one seat on travelling, one set of excursions and one lot of meals.
the singleton will pay the same in theory - one seat, one lot of meals and some small single room/bed for which they have to pay a single supplement. They do not get any advantage from the single supplement aside from the fact that they do not have to share. - that is unfair.
Sometimes the single supplement can be £70 on a £250 coach holiday for example. So a couple pay (each) £250 but the single person has to pay £250+70 !

Yes, the OP didn’t add ‘and all couples have the perfect life!’

I noticed this when I was single - if I ever mentioned something wasn’t ideal I got shot down immediately by people eager to tell me married life wasn’t all that. Obviously it brings its own issues but why you’d insist on reminding someone of this at every turn I don’t know!

No insurance provider is nuanced enough to provide a tailored premium to each customer who can say “oh, but I’m the exception to all the evidence you have, notwithstanding my single status”.

When I told mine that my ex had left and they informed me of the increased premium bursting into tears was enough to get them to change their minds .

Are you seriously comparing paying for all bills alone versus paying for your DP's leisure membership?!
No. It was an example. As was the thousands of pounds that would be needed for a new laptop. Granted, that didn't materialise, but it will at some point, as will many other expenses. And incidentally, as my DP makes less than minimum wage even in a normal year, I pay the bills and mortgage.

You will have had the benefit of being to save when DP was working.
See above for how much/little disposable income we have even in a normal year.
I also have family members to support.
I don't see why I have to go into this level of detail about my finances to justify what I've said. I'd never grill a single person (well, anyone) on the ins and outs of their finances.

Obviously when you love someone, partner or child or parent, a certain amount of worry for their health and well-being comes with that. But that in itself doesn’t mean being without them is in some way preferable.

OK. Again, I would never require this much detail from anyone in order to decide how much understanding/acceptance I should have or their personal circumstances, but...

the 'certain amount of worry' for my DP's health and well-being has included and may well include in the future the fear that he may take his life (he has MH issues). As you can imagine, COVID and his loss of income and purpose through work has not helped, to put it mildly.

that in itself doesn’t mean being without them is in some way preferable.
Once more: I have NOT said that being single is preferable.
I have said that everyone has problems – not bigger, not smaller, different.

crinklyfoil, I'm far from being the only person on the thread using their own life as an example or illustration.

mainsfed, I'm not married.

I think this has gone a bit off topic. Of course there are emotional and financial advantages to being a couple. There are also some challenges. There are also a lot of advantages to being single. (Maybe not so many financial ones for most people). many people choose singledom and thrive in it. Many people carry deep sadness that they have not, yet, found a partner, and it is no way a choice. But it’s not a competition about who has is tougher.

I’m sorry to hear that internittent but I am sorry, I still think you are being really unfair here. You are taking your specific set of circumstances and using it to try to prove the general point wrong - a bit like when men insist women are violent in relationships too or ‘well white lives matter.’

You have a specific and I am sure very stressful life I genuinely hope it resolves itself.

However, in general, financially and emotionally, being in a couple tends to be easier.

Posters seem to be missing my point about car insurance. I thought insurance companies weren't allowed to discriminate based on sex, nevermind if women are statistically safer drivers. So why is it acceptable based on single/married status?

As for things like single supplements on holidays, I didn't mention them. Things like that where there are economies of scale I can understand a bit more (although it's crap!) But single people already have to pay more rent etc so things like council tax should be fairer.

As for living with others - I'm open the the idea of a lodger/houseshare, but once you're in your 30s there's a lot fewer people to choose from who are in the same position and want to share. It's a lot harder, and certainly not a choice, to find someone you can happily cohabit with.