To think being single should be recognised in law as an unreasonable basis for discrimination?

[OneLovelyDay]

I've just discovered (learning to drive later than others) that apparently it's unreasonable to charge women less for car insurance, but apparently fine to charge single people more than married people.

There's loads of things like this that discriminate against single people, although some not as directly. I'm thinking things like council tax discount, which should be 50% for living alone, not the 25% it is.

More broadly, it's interesting how society has accepted (to some degree) alternative family arrangements but not singleness/childlessness. I could marry and start a family with another woman and it would fit with societies' expectations (and financial incentives) more than being single, or having children alone by sperm donation.

I find being single totally an acceptable thing, don't feel the need for a partner in a day to day sense. But hoping for a family and a ticking biological clock reminds me that it's not my choice to be single. So I don't think it's acceptable for society to discriminate like this. (But also even if someone chooses to be childfree and single that should be respected and treated as legitimate and fulfilled life!)

I was reminded of it particularly harshly in the first lockdown in 2020, when people not living with a family were not supposed to go within two meters of another human, and there was no outcry. It was a real jolt in terms of realising how society views us as different/weird/not normal (thus not entitled to the same basic humane conditions, in that instance).

Fortunately most of my friends are either single or not the joined-at-the-hip with partner type. But sometimes these things crop up and I'm suddenly reminded that my life and needs are not considered as legitimate as those in couples or with children. At the moment this is happening a lot as I'm about to take a drop in income and so going through bills working out where to save money.

I just think it should be illegal to discriminate for things like car insurance based on single status, and more broadly that people should consider this issue and not treat single people differently, in the same way people have started to consider racism, homophobia etc.
AIBU?

OP, I agree that YANBU on some things but are on others. The council tax is an odd one, but when they tried to bring in something to make every adult pay and not every house, there was rioting in the streets. I remember paying Poll Tax for about 1 year when I was 18 and it did seem very unfair, as I did not own the house.

With car insurance, when I rang up to try and reduce my quote, the CS person literally put words into my mouth "do you have use of another car?" well i could, but I never drive it, it's my parents.... "OK, great, you have use of a second vehicle, that is £50 cheaper.....

@IntermittentParps

You are assuming that someone has a friend or relative who wants / can afford to go on that particular holiday at that particular time. How it usually works is that people discuss and agree on a holiday they want to go on and the timings. That goes for couples as well as single people.

You're still assuming that people have friends or relatives they want to go on holiday with / who want to go on holiday with them.

My parents do their own thing, as does my sibling.

My friends are coupled up and holiday with their other halves (and children where applicable).

No, I’m not being obtuse.

Your comment might as well have said ‘You’ve no one to worry about! Aren’t you lucky?’

what I'm saying is that someone in a couple has support, yes, but also has to handle the worry about their partner becoming ill or incapacitated.

I'm single, if I become ill or incapacitated then I'm screwed. For example, I'm getting my vaccine jag on Thursday and I have to plan because if I get some of the side effects then it's entirely up to me.

There’s no moral imperative, in my mind, to burden non-single people, or happily single people, financially because some people are single and unhappy about it. How can that be right?

I must have missed the part where someone suggested taxing couples and giving the money to single people.

@IntermittentParps

You are assuming that someone has a friend or relative who wants / can afford to go on that particular holiday at that particular time. How it usually works is that people discuss and agree on a holiday they want to go on and the timings. That goes for couples as well as single people.

Exactly! I find someone to go on holiday with who I am happy to share a room with before booking. Usually its DH, but it might be my Mum or my DD or a friend. Just like a single person could do. If I can't find someone else to share a room with, I either don't go or I pay the the full rate for the room by myself. I don't get a discount on a whole room to myself because of my relationship status. If I choose to have a whole room to myself (maybe not a "choice" if DH doesn't want to come and I can't find anyone else to come) then I pay the whole room rate. If I find someone to share with, then I pay the shared room rate. Just like a single person.

I tried to get annual leave in a half term as it’s my birthday. The fuss caused by parents because I’m single and childless and was “taking away their family time” by booking leave was awful. Same in summer holidays & Christmas. Apparently us single, childless people should wait for all the parents to book their leave first then take what’s left. 🙄

It is difficult as obviously children can’t be left in school holidays.

I don’t know what the answer is tbh.

@crinklyfoil

It is difficult as obviously children can’t be left in school holidays.

I don’t know what the answer is tbh.

Better / more available childcare?

Actually that’s another place where single people lose out - only one lot of annual leave to use to cover school holidays / sickness etc.

You're still assuming that people have friends or relatives they want to go on holiday with / who want to go on holiday with them.
Different point. I was specifically answering the assertion that you need to find someone who can go on a particular holiday at a particular time.

Your comment might as well have said ‘You’ve no one to worry about! Aren’t you lucky?’ I really don't see how I can explain again or make myself any clearer. You're either not getting me or you're deliberately not getting me. Never mind.

slashlover, yes, I understand. I've already said more than once that I know there are downside to being single too, especially when children are involved; and that all I mean is that being in a couple has downsides too.

Advic3Pl3as3, I agree, this attitude is very widespread and massively offensive.

Personally I feel more 'discrimination' (although that's a strong word and I think of it more as thoughtlessness) against me for being in a couple.

As a married person, I am able to save much more than a single person, because all of our living costs are shared.

@An0n0n0n

Is it not covered by Equality Act, discriminating on marital status?

no

What the Equality Act says about marriage and civil partnership discrimination
The Equality Act says you must not be discriminated against in employment because you are married or in a civil partnership.

In the Equality Act marriage and civil partnership means someone who is legally married or in a civil partnership. Marriage can either be between a man and a woman, or between partners of the same sex. Civil partnership is between partners of the same sex.

People do not have this characteristic if they are:

single
living with someone as a couple neither married nor civil partners
engaged to be married but not married
divorced or a person whose civil partnership has been dissolved

YABU to expect legislation YANBU to be opposed to price gouging based on being single.
Your view of Council tax discount is overly simplistic.

Possibly, yes, although I can understand parents wanting to spend holidays with their children.

intermittent I understand you perfectly - “ he works with the public, which means I'm in a constant low-level anxious state about his health re Covid. A single person doesn't have that worry.” There you are, they are your words. Absolutely no misunderstanding.

The protected characteristics under the EA include things that are changeable and immutable; age, sex, race, disability, marriage/civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, sexual orientation, gender reassignment and religion.

Car insurance for married couple is lower not because marriage confers some sort of mystical bonus that entitles you to not give the insurance company more of your hard earned cash. Insurance lives and dies by ridiculously complex actuarial evidence which shows that statistically, if you’re married, you’re less likely to claim on your car insurance than if you’re single.

This is my understanding too but when premiums for female drivers were lower because we were less likely to claim it was argued it was discriminatory and now men and women pay the same. I wonder if the statistically higher likelihood of a single person making a claim is related to age; young adults are more likely to be single than someone in their 40's. It does feel slightly unfair although I accept that tailored premiums according to my individual risk are not feasible.

I'm not sure what the answer is to council tax but paying 75% for a single person household does seem disproportionate. I don't need to put my bins out for every collection but accept that the council provide the service on the assumption that each household will. The cost of refuse management is not just limited to kerbside collection, there will be landfill and recycling sorting, both of which I will contribute less to. When I have lived with people we have each had our own cars but now I'm a single car household. Even if everyone made use of all council leisure and recreational facilities I will still use less of the resources than a household of 4 people etc

@mainsfed

Personally I feel more 'discrimination' (although that's a strong word and I think of it more as thoughtlessness) against me for being in a couple.

As a married person, I am able to save much more than a single person, because all of our living costs are shared.

I was on my own a while before marrying and having a child, I can’t believe how much more money I have now

As a married person, I am able to save much more than a single person, because all of our living costs are shared.
You only eat one person's worth of food? Require one lot of clothes? Electronics? Transport?

Yes, there are savings in being in a couple. There are also expenses, especially if earnings are not equal. I recently paid for my DP's membership at his leisure centre as he's hardly earned anything since the pandemic. I've recently paid for DIY and related materials. His laptop, which is essential for what work he does have (and looking for work), looked as if it was dying the other day. Thankfully it's recovered, but I was already doing the sums about getting a new one.

On the bins front, landfill is charged by weight usually, so a single person will cost less than a couple regardless of whether their bins are collected with the same frequency.

@mainsfed

Personally I feel more 'discrimination' (although that's a strong word and I think of it more as thoughtlessness) against me for being in a couple.

As a married person, I am able to save much more than a single person, because all of our living costs are shared.

You can save over a single person living alone, but two single people sharing would have the same savings as two married people sharing.

It is the act of sharing that is cheaper and is not in any way linked to relationship status.

crinkly, the operative phrase in what I said was that worry. THAT worry. That specific one.
I did not say single people do not have other worries. I did not say single people have lesser worries.
I do not see how I can make myself clearer.

@LilMidge01

Agree in part. I think pandemic highlighted it and I was also outraged it took so long for bubbles to be introduced and even then, mot everyone had a bubble arrangement available...so they just havent had any close contact with anyone in over a year? I'm not single but I do not have children and whilst I was very happy with how flexible and tolerant my workplace was for parents who had to wfh and juggle home schooling (not blaming any of that on them!)..there was a bit of an assumption that childless people like myself would pick up the slack and work really late into the night and exhaust ourselves and compromise our mental and physical health, as if we had nothing better to be doing..purely because others have had children (blaming the work structure, not parents!)

Same at my place. I had the delightful combination of being single without access to a bubble arrangement due to geographical distance + no kids so working a whacking chunk of additional hours unpaid for over a year.

Still knackered, tbh!

I'm sure there are some examples where it's not the case, but yes, I saved money by getting married.

I am a sensible, older woman, so nothing changed about my behaviour at all, but insurance etc decreased when I changed my marital status.

@excuseforfights

In terms of council tax, being a single person doesn’t mean you use 50% less of council provided services than a couple does. The houses of single people aren’t generally half the size of those of couples, your bin isn’t emptied half as often, your car doesn’t do half as much damage to roads etc.

I disagree. Single people are more likely to live in 1 bed flats and they will produce rubbish for 1 person not 2 or more and they will have less people to ferry around.

This is not entirely true for council tax. There were 4 people in my household but, as the only adult, I got the single persons discount. The on bed flat you mention, however, will be a lower value than a 4 bed house and thus the council tax will be lower.

Agree with a lot of what you say OP. Council tax in particular is just nonsense. It's a tax. It's not a payment for rubbish or schools or whatever but a tax. The majority of council funds (for schools/roads/etc) comes from central government ie from tax. Which you and everyone else contributes to at the same level (ie incrementally based on income/assets). So why is there this corner of funding that people contribute to at a rate of 50% more just because they're single? It doesn't make sense on any level.

Single, childless people are also not accessing schools.