Maths ... AIBU?

[eatsleepread]

I was chatting with a colleague the other day; we have daughters in secondary school, and both are struggling with Maths. I am currently looking for a tutor for my daughter.
I simply cannot understand the 'one size fits all' approach to the teaching of this subject, and believe that it requires an overhaul. Why - when she does perfectly well in her other subjects - would my daughter need to learn about the equation of a line, trigonometry, algebra? What good is going to come of this in her everyday future life?
Rather, why can't she be taught mathematics related life skills? Lessons that revolve around addition, subtraction, percentages, bank statements, interest ... and all other useful elements of the subject.
Leave the serious study of maths to those who are gifted or even interested in it. And let the others ditch it in favour of the practical basics, where they might actually achieve something.
Why are they all still being taught the same things? And why are so many young people particularly girls still failing at this subject?
AIBU?

You don't need x though.

You know you are buying 5 things costing 60p each. Why are we adding in an x to make an equation we don't need?

It's still algebra. You just say Wispa instead of x. It's the same process. Simple algebra is just basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and division.

I loved trig and algebra at GCSE. They're the reason I went on to do A-level pure maths.

OTOH, I had no interest in passive subjunctions (or whatever) and I can honestly say I've never had to formally identify the grammatical structure of a sentence in my life. OP - why pick on maths? Why not suggest we limit English to reading and writing since that's all most people will ever use?

...or is school about introducing large numbers of kids to these different concept so that those who are interested can choose to study them further?

@EBearhug

You don't need x though.

You know you are buying 5 things costing 60p each. Why are we adding in an x to make an equation we don't need?

It's still algebra. You just say Wispa instead of x. It's the same process. Simple algebra is just basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and division.

Your example was not algebra. Nobody buying 5 things at 60p each has used algebra.

Lannie, again that's another argument to be had, why not concentrate on basic grammar, writing sentences with the basics, and teach words and their meaning and creative writing so everyone can try and express themselves, expressing ourselves is crucial?

So many pupils who can grasp, capital letter and full stops, get lost at coordinating conjunction, subordinate blah... It's a barrier.

We need to remove barriers and arm children with what they will need, which is how to read and write and express themselves, and how to do basic sums, but more importantly how to keep money, save money, grow money and support ourselves.

And if we as a society can't teach maths to pupils who struggle we shouldn't hold those pupils back in life for not having a maths gcse

There is a critical shortage of qualified maths teachers due to a lack of supply of maths-qualified people in the country in general. Lowering expectations won't improve standards. Making it voluntary won't improve supply.

What we actually need is for people who struggled with maths at school to come back to it as adults and get better at it, as well as making serious efforts to improve the recruitment and retention of maths teachers.

You actually use a lot of maths in manual labour - builders use maths loads because of quantities, forces, etc. And if they know geometry they can do cool things like this:

boingboing.net/2020/07/24/video-man-cuts-tile-perfectly.html

What we actually need is for people who struggled with maths at school to come back to it as adults and get better at it

I tried that....still failed the exam as no matter how many times something was explained to me I still did not understand it. I cannot do mental arithmetic at all and still have to add up and take away using either my fingers or a calculator.

I cannot do mental arithmetic at all and still have to add up and take away using either my fingers or a calculator.

That's possibly a problem with working memory - being able to hold more than one number in your head at once and manipulate them. I've got a crap working memory and I'm a maths teacher. I sometimes use my fingers to keep track of where I am in a mental calculation, and other times I need to write bits down as I go. I'm excellent at always showing my working out, not because I need to write it down as I can't keep it in my head.

There could also be issues with not having memorised basic number facts like number bonds/times tables so that you have to work them out each time.

@Cocomarine @LadyOfTheFlowers - you are both right obviously. DD actually has EHCP so she does get a lot of SEN support with memory strategies etc. Its the insistence that maths teacher knows best and she needs to be in set lessons which is the issue. Her only learning occurs in the one session a week she does with a specialist TA.. and yes we do loads at home (I love maths me,) I have many, many manipuables and various text books etc.

I think there is also a covid issue where bottom math sets have gone feral! DDs friends are in top sets which are silent and zooming through curriculum, in DDs class they are throwing chairs and jumping out windows. Its like the 1980s all over again.

The maths teacher is the expert in teaching maths. If the behaviour in the classroom isn't allowing that to happen, then school needs to act.

A specialist TA for maths that is effective is incredibly hard to come by so hold on to that! We have an ex maths teacher as one and she is excellent, however she is the exception. Research shows that students with SEN need more (not less) time with specialist teachers.

It's great that you do lots at home, that will support her.

@noblegiraffe

I cannot do mental arithmetic at all and still have to add up and take away using either my fingers or a calculator.

That's possibly a problem with working memory - being able to hold more than one number in your head at once and manipulate them. I've got a crap working memory and I'm a maths teacher. I sometimes use my fingers to keep track of where I am in a mental calculation, and other times I need to write bits down as I go. I'm excellent at always showing my working out, not because I need to write it down as I can't keep it in my head.

There could also be issues with not having memorised basic number facts like number bonds/times tables so that you have to work them out each time.

Seeing numbers written down confuses me. More than 3 in a row and I'm stuck. The same number in a row e.g 222 leaves me stumped....I spend a long time with my fingers under a phone number like a child learning to read...I just can't see them in the correct order otherwise, it's all a jumbled mess. I can hold more than one number in my head...I just can't hold them in the right order.

Is that a reading issue, trapped? If someone read the numbers out to you would you have the same issue?

No because if they read the numbers out I can write them down in blocks of 2 eg 12 34 56 etc. My reading is fine thanks.

Your example was not algebra. Nobody buying 5 things at 60p each has used algebra.

One thing costs 60p. How much do 5 things cost? X in algebra is just a placeholder for the "thing" in case you have more than one.

1 wispa is 60p. 1 twix is 75p. How much money do you need to buy 5 wispas and 3 twix?

Algebra X = 60, y = 75. What is 5x + 3y?

I meant if they read the numbers to you, could you perform mental arithmetic on them?

@TimeForTeaAndG

Your example was not algebra. Nobody buying 5 things at 60p each has used algebra.

One thing costs 60p. How much do 5 things cost? X in algebra is just a placeholder for the "thing" in case you have more than one.

1 wispa is 60p. 1 twix is 75p. How much money do you need to buy 5 wispas and 3 twix?

Algebra X = 60, y = 75. What is 5x + 3y?

My point was nobody needed to add x.

We knew it was 5 items.

@noblegiraffe

I meant if they read the numbers to you, could you perform mental arithmetic on them?

No because the numbers would be jumbled up in my head if it were more than 2.

A basic use of algebra / ability to rearrange equations could be converting between Fahrenheit and Celcius.
F=9C/5 + 32
So if I know C I can calculate F and vice versa.

Or even more simply between Km and Miles
K = 8M/5

Your example was not algebra. Nobody buying 5 things at 60p each has used algebra.

It is

5 things x 60p = 300p

300p = £3.00

@sashh

Your example was not algebra. Nobody buying 5 things at 60p each has used algebra.

It is

5 things x 60p = 300p

300p = £3.00

What part of converting pennies to pounds is algebra?

Remember also that algebra is only one strand of maths.
How about probability?

You DC comes home and say guess what Jamie and Lucy in my class share the same birthday! What's that chances of that?!
Answer - if it's a class of 30 it is more likely than not.

Or go on the game show with 3 boxes and the prize behind one of them. You pick a box, the host opens another empty box. Now he asks you to stick to the box you chose, or switch to the other unopened box. What should you do for the best chance of winning?

I always thought that as a teen, but I can say now, having left school a long time ago, that I’ve had to use alegbra for my job (sales), lots and lots of percentages, ratios and formulas for my job, ratios for cooking, and pythagoras and calculating area and volume for DIY projects. The latter of which would be impossible to do without understanding how to calculate volumes!! So, so important for reducing wastage on a job (or finding out you don’t have enough material...).
As a kid, I never thought I’d do DIY, but here I am years later giving it a go, and so glad that I can do it with a bit of help from my maths lessons.

Or go on the game show with 3 boxes and the prize behind one of them. You pick a box, the host opens another empty box. Now he asks you to stick to the box you chose, or switch to the other unopened box. What should you do for the best chance of winning

"Eeny meeny miny moe" would be how I would do it.

Also, probability comes in quite handy when playing card games if you’re (loosely) counting cards and know what’s already been played on the table 😁 infuriates my dad, but hey!